A sociopath has very, very kind to himself in terms of a self evaluation. You know objective. Well how bout this, sociopaths don't really have humility. So even if you knew that you were, you know, ninety ninth percentile, I don't really have humility about saying that. Maybe that's not kosher to say, because you know it makes other people feel bad, or it sounds narcissistic, or it sounds like I really care about being smart. But just this, sort of bluntness, this frankness about ones own traits, you know, for good or for bad, I think characterize a sociopath.
Rob Kall: And, and in your book you've described how, you know, you're really bright but you don't work that hard, and your work ethic actually has impaired your functioning on the job, in some jobs anyway. In some ways what you describe as your way that you pay attention, in some ways you're kind of like somebody with ADD, who can hyper focus on something they're interested in, and not and has trouble focusing on something you don't want to deal with.
M.E. Thomas: Yes. Right exactly. So you know, when I say that I'm lazy, it is, it's very difficult for me to get myself to do something that I'm not naturally inclined to do. That's basically what I mean. And I think, you know, everybody relates to that to a certain extent. But a lot of people will do things because they, they feel guilt, you know.
So I was just having a conversation with one of my siblings about this, where he was sort of, you know late for work and couldn't get up to go to work, and he said, "You know I have this problem where I just can't get myself to do things sometimes. The only reason why I eventually go to work is I'm afraid of being fired". Right? And to me I'm not necessarily afraid of being fired. Sometimes I will continue doing bad things, and then just eventually you know, be let go for whatever reason. You know I'm not meeting the criteria.
But I can also be very dedicated if something interests me. You know, I did very well in law school. I've done well as a, a law professor, and becoming engaged in something. I was a musician, and that takes a lot of work and dedication, but it's very, it's, and I think this is a little bit like the autism spectrum too. It has to be something that I myself am interested in. And for the most part the things that I'm interested in are things that I sort of conceive as a game, and not just a game, but a game that I think that I have some special advantage. Some, a good likelihood of winning. You know I wouldn't want to just take up deep sea fishing right now because I, I would probably be terrible at it. And I wouldn't have any sort of advantage, compared to people who have been doing it this long time. But there are other things that I do think I have kind of a natural advantage, and those things I can become very invested in.
Rob Kall: You mentioned your sibling. And, and earlier in your book, you say about your parents that their love served no purpose to me. And then, and then you said about your father, that he felt worse for hurting his image, his public image than for damaging the kids. So you would, I got the impression that you would entice him to hit you. So that later you would go to church and then, you would almost act in nonverbal ways to threaten him that you would let people know what he had done, and that was your way of controlling him. Did I get that right?
M.E. Thomas: Yeah. So, yeah I I think it's a pretty accurate description. When you're in a situation like that, and I think sociopathic children are particularly vulnerable to power struggles, perceived power struggles particularly when they seem unfair. You know like I said the rigged game. It's sort of a rigged game when you have a parent like that, who is, you know I don't think intentionally. I don't think my father was ever intentionally sort of, subjugating the interest of his children in favor of, how society perceived him. But just the incentive of having a good reputation in society was just so much more strong and compelling, that it was easy to do. And it's easy for a lot of us, to sort of behave poorly, when the incentive structure is such like that.
He, you know he didn't really get gold stars for being a good parent, right? But he did get these accolades for being this, pillar of the community, right? So he, he would behave in ways like this. And it is true that if somebody is like that, and they're sort of, they're in control and they like being in control, and they exercise that control, then one way that you can show them that you also have power, is to provoke them into being angry, right? Because you have done that thing, when you make him angry that is, that was your choice to make him angry. And so it is a way to sort of exercise power in a situation in which you otherwise, don't have it. The power in balance is so far skewed.
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