Marina: Sure. This is specific in Argentina. The way people are talking about autonomy was not in reference to any specific historical or theoretical body of literature. There are all kinds of Autonomist Marxists, and people who talk about autononism. In Argentina, what people were talking about when they said they were autonomists (or wanted to be autonomists), it was really just as it related to power over, and power of the state ,and institutional power. So, it was linked to the idea of horizontalism and autogestion, that people want to make decisions for themselves, and are going to make decisions for themselves, and don't want that interfered with by the state, or from any other forms of institutional power, or power over. So that was the sense of creating autonomy as we're going to create this together with one another. That doesn't mean that there is zero relationship to the state. It means that people decide amongst themselves if and how there might be a relationship. They decide autonomously. It's not, "We drop out of society and have no relationship." Early on that is what a lot of people wanted to do; and then they realized that actually the state still existed, and the stated doesn't let you drop out even if you want to.
So, figuring out the relationship to the state, became a much more complicated and nuanced relationship, and so both movements are both creating autonomy, trying to create their own agenda, and not have it interfered with; but if there is a relationship to the state, they make the decision of what that's going to look like.
Rob: And there was a language of autonomy?
Marina: Uh-huh, absolutely.
Rob: What is that about?
Marina: It was just an immediate - the way people were speaking the same way people talked about horizontalizad they talked about autonomia. Some of the unemployed movements used it with horizontalism, autonomy, and dignity or social change, were slogans around which they were organizing which is, "We're going to decide together and not have our agenda interfered with;" whether that's political parties or the state or however, but autonomists' creation together.
Rob: So, autonomy is a simple word, but it is a central theme of the change that took place in Argentina. It was a major element in the way people thought about and approached how they were doing things.
Marina: Right, exactly.
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