Rob: Is there a movement that has any momentum to do this?
BB: There, you know in the world, there is the commons movement. So there is the social commons movement which certainly is growing. And we see it more in other countries than we see it in any of the North American countries. But we are seeing it there, we see it in South America, etc. We see it in Brazil where there's participatory budgets. Where the whole community get together to figure out how they're going to spend the budget. This is the beginning of something much more democratic that we haven't seen much of for a long time. So I'm not expecting to live to see, I'm 70 years old, I'm not expecting to live to see this go as far as I'm hoping it will go. But are there seeds there and are we seeing some kind of momentum, we are, we are. The fact that we, you know that we had demonstrations that, in the occupy movement, that were very different then what we've seen before. Where people in effect instead of simply waving their fists, created little communities together as they were camping out. All of this I see as a new spirit in the world, and I'm hopeful about what we can do. But I think we, you know I think we need to grab hold of it.
Rob: Really what you're talking about as a solution it goes way more than this small modification in INAUDIBLE 39:12.
BB: Yes.
Rob: If you're really talking about a socio-cultural-shift.
BB: That's it. That is exactly it. And most people who critique psychiatry and not talking about that and so they're wonderful wonderful allies, so let me be clear, I'm so thankful for them. At the same time, I know that their solutions will not change things very much. And that we need absolutely a profound socio-cultural-shift.
Rob: Let's hear your big vision of that.
BB: Well I think you have been articulating it when you read all those principles. I do think that we need to, you know, I do think that if the capitalists are wrong, and they're definitely wrong, so are the centralist socialists. I think we need small community where everyone is directly having a say and we absolutely work out things in concert together where we do not have the state create solutions, but where we as individuals, small communities, in cooperation with the other communities around us, figure out how to live together.
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