LW: Their role is to create the environment so that leaders can be adaptive. Then that's tied to this original topic we were talking about is, we need a culture where we can trust leaders at lower levels to verify, to train, to do their job instead of always falling back on some type of system to check it.
Rob: And how does - now this is a bottom up approach, you agreed? Right? This is kind of a bottom up approach.
LW: Well that's right, yeah. Because the top down approach, that worked well when we were going against the Soviets, but today's threat environment, we need a bottom up approach. Now that doesn't mean we eliminate the top; we still need the top, the top still has a function in the army, but we need more capable people at the bottom.
Rob: Okay, so given that this is a bottom up approach, how does this bottom up approach affect the culture and the people at the top, too?
LW: This bottom up approach affects the - how does it affect the culture? Or how does it affect -
Rob: Yes.
LW: Well, it gets a lot more - a successful bottom up approach develops a trust between the top and the bottom. So the top says, you know what, as long as I push out my intent, my task and my purpose they call it, I can trust the bottom to exercise prudent risk, to take disciplined initiative, and keep me informed in what's going on. The people in the bottom have trust that the leaders up top will give them the ability to do it, will keep them informed, and will follow up with any support and resources that they might need.
Rob: How does that tie into the three recommendations that you gave?
LW: That - three recommendations was we need to talk about the current culture, but the biggest one is the second two, and that's exercise restraint. And that exercise restraint is at the top if requirements come that are going to overwhelm those on the bottom, the leaders at the top have to be the backstop and say it's not going to go past me. They've already been burdened enough and so we're going to stop it.
Rob: So in other words, the way that the leadership at the top has to change is it's got to stop passing down responsibilities that they know are not going to work.
LW: Or requirements that push those on the bottom over the edge. That there's no way they can do this; this is just another, the expression is another rock in their rucksack. They just don't need it, or they need it, but I got to take something else out. See, if we want leaders at the bottom to exercise initiative, they need the space, the leeway, the ability to exercise that initiative. We can't expect them to exercise initiative if we keep filling their rucksack with rocks.
Rob: Okay, there's a word, I can't - I don't have it in front of me, it was like pencil something, driven or -
LW: Pencil whipping. Pencil whipping.
Rob: Pencil whipping.
LW: Pencil whipping, ya.
Rob: What is it?
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