LW: It's a natural trend because we're part of society. And so as society moves that direction, we move that direction. And what we need to do is pull back and say you know what, we don't need to be so much like society, we need to focus on our leaders, we need to develop our leaders to be in touch with their people. And so falling back on that computer, that might not be the best thing.
Rob: Now you elude in your report to having to account to overseers, I assume that would include congressional -
LW: Yes.
Rob: - people.
LW: Civilian appointees, political politicians, anything right.
Rob: So, how do you tell them we can't do what you're asking because it's creating a culture of lying?
LW: I think you have to be honest with them and that's why that's categorized under leading truthfully; a strategic leader has to be honest with stakeholders, with civilian overseers, with the political appointees over them saying, this is the way it is. That's the duty of a military person to civilian authority, is to tell the truth, tell the way it is. The military can't be a bunch of "yes" men.
Rob: Yet, that scares me a little bit. I mean the military is accountable to civilians, some, but I guess what you're saying is that they can't micromanage really.
LW: They can't micromanage, they can't be zero defects, they can't - in the military, in the army it's - they have something called the can-do spirit; we can do it because that's the military, but sometimes the army has to turn somebody and say we can't do that because if we do it will have detrimental effects.
Rob: Okay, now you really haven't gotten into the way this costs the military. Has there been any analysis of the cost of this culture of lying in the military?
LW: No, there hasn't because my study was based on discussions with officers and you can only push them so far.
Rob: I don't understand.
LW: I don't think anyone would ever tell me everything that goes on because there are some you know, I got them to tell me what they personally experienced, and there's no way I could account for everything that goes on in the army to tally it all up.
Rob: I hear you. Did you get any intimations that it affected strategic decision making in terms of actions by military units?
LW: No, I didn't go into - like if you talk about campaigns and war fighting and all of that, no I didn't delve into that area.
Rob: Why not?
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