W.B.: Yeah that's right, that's basically what it was.
R.K.: It's rigid, it's fragile, it's very vulnerable.
W.B.: It makes everybody afraid to try to do anything. You know you have to have direct approval from the top down.
R.K.: Wow. Alright. So I wanted to cover the Borg Collective and the hive-mind and now I want to go on, it's kind of the last thing, is technology. You were talking about last night about how different operating systems and browsers, how NSA has their hooks into them and there has been some talk about how Microsoft is one of the worst. Tell us a little bit about how NSA works with operating systems and browsers?
W.B.: Well I think part of what they're trying to do is get to all the different corporations and the product that they produce and try to have them create weaknesses or put in types of information software or hardware and software into their products so they can be spread around the world and that gives them windows or weaknesses where they can break into things anywhere around the world, at least that's what 's being published so far.
And for example they said in a newspaper in the Netherlands they published that about a couple of months ago they published an article that showed that they had something on the order of greater than fifty thousand implants in the world, which means that they have these, this capability deployed around the world; it's switches where any switch can be instructed to dual route everything it gets back to NSA for example or anywhere else in the world.
So that means that they could have up to fifty thousand switches or servers around the world, giving and feeding them information.
R.K.: What about these back doors in operating systems?
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