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KHURY PETERSEN-SMITH Well, their tensions are real, but they come in a context, and I think that it's the United States and its allies that are really shaping that context. The point that you make about the US and its allies wanting control over the Middle East is absolutely true. And certainly, somebody like John Bolton was one of the people advocating back in 2001, 2002, 2003, that the US should be attacking Iran, you know, as it went and attacked Afghanistan and Iraq. And that was precisely about making sure the United States was supreme in the region and that there was no state that did anything other than the, kind of, path that the US and its allies had forged. So that effort to really maintain control has for a long time been the plan for many people who are now in the Trump administration.
Now, it's true that there is a certain polarization, but the question is what is driving that? So for example, Yemen actually, what's happening in Yemen for Yemenis is not about Iran. [laughs] It's not about the United States. And there are internal-Yemen has its own history, right? And it's only in this battle that the United States and Saudi Arabia and Israel are fomenting with Iran. It's in that context that there's a polarization in which they can say, okay, what's happening in Yemen is really a proxy battle between Saudi Arabia and the US and UAE on one side, and Iran on the other side. It doesn't have to be that way, but it's the United States that is contributing to a polarizing dynamic that makes it so that there are different forces that are choosing sides.
MARC STEINER Khury, I don't want to believe this, but we're almost out of time here. But, I mean, sometimes I think-How do I put this? Sometimes I think that people on the Left and progressives in general want to diminish the role that Iran plays- both internally as a repressive regime and externally- because it is involved. I mean, it doesn't mean that that justifies an American response, and to have sanctions against Iran, or to come out of the treaty, or any of the other things.
KHURY PETERSEN-SMITH Right.
MARC STEINER But to not realize we're also on this world stage and these different forces, economic forces, are battling each other for control- Iran is in the middle of that. It's not like they're just an innocent player.
KHURY PETERSEN-SMITH Yeah. No, you're totally right. And I, you know, nothing that I write or say is an endorsement of, you know, the Iranian government. And there are resistance movements in Iran, as there are around the world.
MARC STEINER Right.
KHURY PETERSEN-SMITH But there are movements in Iran that are challenging that government for any number of reasons, including the repressive situation for most people there, particularly for women there, for all kinds of oppressed minorities in Iran. And Iranians in Iran are challenging what Iran is doing beyond its borders as well. So I think that for those of us, you know-My solidarity is with the people all around the world who are fighting for freedom. I just think that-
MARC STEINER Amen to that, Khury. We're on the same page. [laughs]
KHURY PETERSEN-SMITH Yeah. And so, you know, really the question is, can the people of the world fighting for freedom look to each other and build solidarity instead of looking, believing what our governments are saying? And in that context, for those of us here in the United States, I just think it's really important to start with, let's be clear on, yes, this is a battle between the US and Iran, and we shouldn't be choosing either government to side with. But, but, the United States surrounds Iran with, you know, all kinds of ships and troops and bases. The United States clearly has a dominant role in this relationship.
MARC STEINER So in the ten seconds or so we have left, I just wanted to ask you very quickly, the danger of where this could take us? Because you don't think we would bumble into war. You actually think it would be precipitated.
KHURY PETERSEN-SMITH Well, you know, there is what the US officials are saying, which is that they don't want war. And then there's what they're actually doing. I don't think they're on the same page in terms of what exactly a military operation looks like. Would it be, in their minds, a limited kind of situation? Would it be a full-scale invasion? Either of which would be devastating for Iran, and neither of which is justifiable. But I don't think they're on the same page with that. But what they are on the same page on clearly is putting more troops and material in the region. And that's why if there is a military conflict, it won't be a mistake. I mean, the tactical details may have been unintended, but the US is very intentionally escalating the situation right now. We can't lose sight of that.
MARC STEINER Well, Khury Petersen-Smith, it's always a pleasure to talk to you and thanks for your work with the Institute of Policy Studies. We'll be talking together soon I hope.
KHURY PETERSEN-SMITH Likewise, Marc. Take care.
MARC STEINER Take care. And I'm Marc Steiner here for The Real News Network. Thank you all for joining us. Take care.
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