Rob: Are there studies that indicate that it's bad for people's health?
CC: Absolutely. Actually a British epidemiologist Richard Wilkinson wrote a terrific book called Spirit Matters. It looks at health indicators and there's parallel research in the United States. But basically you're better off living in a community or county that has lower incomes but greater equality than you are living in a county with high levels of inequality. But tremendous wealth. Meaning so, across every health indicator. You know heart disease and, you know, everything, your public health indicators are better, even for wealthy people, they're better when there's more equality. So that's actually more and more, people understand the health equity implications.
Rob: That's, you know I call my radio show bottom up radio because I believe we're transitioning from a top down to a more bottom up culture and that idea that living in a community with more equality, that sounds really like a bottom up kind of a thing that it's a connection to the community that is part of what produces health.
CC: Yeah, underlying that, and this is the explanation. When we become too unequal, there's a breakdown in social solidarity. Which is you know, you and I live in the same community and you're health matters to me, that's the healthy community. Where we see that we're sort of all in the same boat. But when we become too unequal, it's kind of like well that's happening to those people over there and I don't really even know anybody in that circumstance and, you know, those children got shot. I don't know those children, I don't know their families, I don't know anybody who knows their families. It's like we've become, it's not just the other side of the tracks kind of inequality it's like parallel universe inequality. It's like you're operating in one stratosphere and I'm in another. And that leads to this breakdown of solidarity and the notion hey, we're in the same boat and what happens to you matters to me. And then what happens is wealthy people, particularly stop making investments in the wellbeing of the whole, of the commonwealth. I mean they take their tax dollars out, but they also take out their stake in the functioning of the local schools, of local recreation, because they don't use those services and they don't know anybody who depends on them. So that's why, you know, too much inequality stretches our social fabric in a way that is bad and then wealthy people sort of become fearful and withdraw further into wealth enclaves. Next thing you know people start hiring body guards, you can sort of see where it goes. It becomes, would become like Brazil.
Rob: Okay so, makes us sick, effects our democracy, hurts communities, and also in your report it talks about equal opportunity and social mobility as well.
CC: You know this is important because people think, oh, the United States, we're the most mobile society, we don't really care about inequality because everybody has the opportunity to become wealthy. That sort of self-image if you will is like about 30 years old. So it's like being 50 and thinking that your body is still the same as it was in high school. The reality is, we've become less mobile. There's less social mobility. And if you want the American Dream today and the American Dream of you know, saving money, buying a house, maybe taking a vacation, retiring some day, leaving something for your children, that American Dream is further out of reach today than it was a couple decades ago. And if you're not born wealthy in the United States, you're better off living in Canada or Scandinavia if you want the American Dream because you will be living in a society that makes investments that creates a level playing field and creates the foundation for social mobility, and that's no longer, unfortunately, the United States story.
Rob: Wow. So what are the solutions? You've got solutions in this report too.
CC: Well there's sort of two categories because, you know, here's the bad news Rob. The inequality I'm talking about actually is probably much more in reality extreme than what we're able to document. And the reason for that is huge amounts of wealth are now leaving the spotlight if you will, they're going into the shadows of the offshore tax havens. People are taking their wealth and putting it in Swiss bank accounts or the Cayman Islands and they're pretending that it's owned by a subsidiary corporation that they own. Or they're creating trusts and using these kind of billionaire loopholes that are in the tax code to sort of pass wealth on to family members without any scrutiny, accountability or taxation. So I would estimate actually that the level of inequality is almost twice as a great if we look at the hidden wealth escapes, we factor those in. So it's kind of like you know you've got a leaky bucket, you can't just fill it up with water you're still going to have to plug up the leaks. We have to plug up and close down some of these offshore loopholes, billionaire loopholes, then we can institute the kind of policies we did after World War 2 which really brought us together. We can tax the wealth, tax the top, progressive taxation. And make investments that expand opportunity for everybody else. You know after World War 2 we taxed high incomes at very high levels. We had a robust inheritance tax, and we taxed those funds and we invested in the GI bill and debt-free college education and first-time home buyer low interest mortgages and support to small businesses investing in early children education and things that help raise everybody up and create opportunity. So we sort of have to do the same program but, but also, we've learned some things. We know how important it is to provide very early childhood opportunities before the age of six. We can do that. Many states are already doing it. So we can
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