R.K.: Let me just, I've got a couple things
K.F.: Yeah I think you're going to have to do that because I was on a roll and then this damn technology.
R.K.: Really it's a great example of what technology does. It distracts us and it keeps us distracted and you know there's a line you have in your book, you say people don't like to hear that almost everything they've ever believed in is wrong and they will do everything in their power to retain those beliefs.
K.F.: Yes.
R.K.: I think part of that involves keeping themselves distracted and keeping themselves disconnected and industrial civilization provides so many means to do exactly that so people can spend their entire lives spending very little time engaged in something meaningful.
K.F.: Yes, I can, that's spot on. And I think that really comes back to the point, the idea that anyone can be an underminer. This idea of doing something worthwhile. Let's say this idea of work. There's a difference between having a job and doing useful work. Now part of your job may involve useful work but I bet it's just about keeping the machine going. Work is something that everyone needs to do.
There are different aspects to that and I am in a fortunate position whereby I don't need to earn a lot of money to live, most of the work I do is voluntary, I do a few computer repairs here and there, that's a bit ironic but it just happens to be something I am good at, but the vast majority of the time I am doing community work which is a form of undermining because what that community work does is allow people to appreciate what's local to them.
It allows people to create bonds with each other and to actually appreciate where they live rather than looking outside, looking further and further outside for something that provides this alternative to real life, so the community is a fundamental aspect of real living and from the community comes the tribe. The tribe is a stage on from the community so this idea that everyone can do something, have I lost you? Hello? Something went.
R.K.: Something did. Well I just kept on talking.
K.F.: That's okay. So what's the editing thing on this? I presume you can edit this.
R.K.: Let's just keep talking and not get into that. Okay?
K.F.: That's fine. Okay, we're back. This idea that everyone can be an underminer, I am trying to give something back really, always trying to give something back. And the book gives those, really the recipe book, it's the recipes. These are things that you can do. It's not exhaustive, it's really not going to tell you everything you can do and to be honest there's a lot of stuff people are doing that I've never thought of and I may never find out about but it's really useful stuff.
This idea that you've got people, this underground resistance going on all the time that we really shouldn't know about because the moment you discover it, it becomes public and it can be stopped. So sometimes there are forms of undermining that are being carried out by incredible people but sometimes it's best not to be aware of them.
But there are things people can do, all sorts of levels of risk right from, an example I use is wherever you have got public television is just turn them off. Get people talking to each other again. That's a very simple form of undermining. And right up to the idea of shutting down mass communication systems. Again a form of undermining. It's not a single thing. And it's not something that will ever be complete, simply because this process has to go on and on and on until we've reached a stage by which humanity is once again connected and if we can achieve that, we'll know about it.
Although saying that, once you start breaking down these forms of technological mass communication we won't be able to talk to each other like we are now but at least we'll know that neither can corporations, neither can governments control people across the world because those communications are gone.
Those forms of power, those forms of controlling all of your information, controlling your identity is controlling everything you do, just as we've been hearing constantly lately about. That is an outcome of the global internet. Getting rid of the global internet may stop us talking across the world but at least it will stop you being controlled as well. So that is -
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