Rob Kall: Well... That's such a big idea, "The Battle
of Good and Evil." I want to get back to
hierarchy. You've talked about the
culture (particularly the Southern culture) that is hierarchical, and that that
is currently supporting the Republican way of functioning and thinking, and I
wonder what your thoughts were about -- what is it about the Southern Culture that
puts it in such a hierarchical kind of a way of functioning?
Andrew
Schmookler: There is a historical answer,
and that is that this society was established on more hierarchical
grounds. It's sort of axiomatic in a way
among students of American History and culture that Puritan Massachusetts was a
more individualistic, more egalitarian social system, whereas, say, from
Virginia on down, you had the plantation Aristocracy with a military code of
honor. There's a book by a man named
Wyatt Brown. I can find it in one of my
bibliographies if you want. It's
basically about the role of honor in the Old South from the beginnings in the
17th century all the way through.
So you have in the South (and I live here and I know, VMI is in my
district, Virginia Military Institute) a culture here whose relationship to the
military - just for starters -- the schools are named after the Confederate
generals! My son would have gone to
Stonewall Jackson High School if he had been here during high school, but we
were in New Mexico. But that's what they've got here. This is a culture in which the military is
held in a kind of esteem. It is a sign
of manhood that you're ready to fight, it's a sign of honor that you're ready
to fight to protect what honor requires, and you don't, that's not what you get
growing up in Minnesota like I did.
Rob Kall: OK.
So, the honor Code, the military - How about religion?
Andrew
Schmookler: Well, there is that element;
but I would say that the hierarchical aspect is only one of a very rich bouquet
of cultural things. Now, the religion is
a place in the culture where you do have the authoritarian dimension to
it. "God said it, I believe it, and that
settles it," you know? (I did a radio
show back in '94 on that topic with this audience (laughs) That was a fun show
to prepare for.) That is their
attitude.
But the way they can go wrong is that they have a brokenness that's
being exploited; their defects are along these lines of not having put
themselves together in certain ways, and so they can be exploited by a force
that takes their tendency to obey and their willingness to go to battle to
fight for "us" against "them." Which can
be virtues in some situations. Winston
Churchill had those virtues, and thank God that he occupied that position at
that time. But these people can be
exploited, because you get somebody conning them into thinking that they stand
for what's right when it's really just a con game, they can follow the wrong
guy. They can be led astray.
Rob Kall: All right, let me just read this back to
you: "They have a brokenness that can be
exploited by a force that takes their tendency to be open and willing to go to
battle for 'us ' against 'them.' when
they think they are standing in the right."
Andrew Schmookler: They're very good at that.
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