AMY GOODMAN: So you're saying there's not such a contradiction that it's H.R. McMaster, the general, saying, "No, we're not going to be rejoining," and it's --
NAOMI KLEIN: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: -- Rex Tillerson, the former head of ExxonMobil, who's saying, "No, we will," because he wants to change these.
NAOMI KLEIN: He's dangling the possibility. He's dangling the possibility, so that leaders like Macron and Trudeau, who want to imagine that they have the power to bring Trump back, will weaken the agreement further, which will be to the benefit of the oil industry. And I would argue that Rex Tillerson, as a man who worked at Exxon for 41 years, has their interests at heart.
AMY GOODMAN: Naomi Klein, author of the book No Is Not Enough: Resisting Trump's Shock Politics and Winning the World We Need, also This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate. We'll be back with her in a minute.
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