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But at the same time, Iran has allies among the Kurds, whether it's Iraqi Kurds or even among some Syrian Kurds as allies among Iraqi militias. And it already has been and is still supporting Asbala in Lebanon. So basically, the U.S. cannot realistically blockade Iran. What else does the U.S. want to continue? The tension put pressure on the Syrian government so that the U.S. could remain a player when a final agreement is made in Syria? And for this, the U.S. actually supports the Syrian Democratic Forces. They control a quarter to a third of Syrian territory. Some of the richest soil agricultural areas in Syria are in this region, and that's where there are also serious oil and gas fields. So basically is this also a weapon that the U.S. is trying to use? What is the objective?
It does not seem that the U.S. is very clear on that. In the long term, the U.S. position is tenable, particularly after the Syrian government has regained control over most of the territory of Syria, except for the two areas of Idlib where you still have Al Qaeda and some other Syrian opposition forces. And you have these Syrian Democratic Forces where Syria considered these Kurdish forces to be a part of the PKK, which is the Kurdistan Workers Party, which has been fighting against Turkey since 1982. And basically, many of the Kurds in this area also are seen by Turkey as terrorists. Primarily, this put the U.S. in a very difficult position. And in the long run, it is in an untenable position.
GREG WILPERT: Okay. Now, one of the other main points that critics have made of the Trump administration's decision to withdraw from Syria is that it would revive ISIS in Syria; the Islamic State. Now here's what Senator Lindsey Graham had to say about that issue.
LINDSEY GRAHAM: This is going up lead to ISIS reemergence. Nothing better for ISIS than to create a conflict between the Kurds and Turkey. The Kurds will now ally them with Assad because they have nobody to count on because we abandoned them. So this is a big win for Iran and Assad, a big win for ISIS. I will do everything I can to sanction Turkey if they step one foot in Northeastern Syria. So to those who think ISIS has been defeated, you will soon see. And to Turkey, you have destroyed the relationship with the U.S. Congress and I will do everything I can to sanction Turkey's military and their economy if they step one foot into Syria.
GREG WILPERT: So Edmund, what do you make of that argument that Senator Lindsey Grahamand of course many othershave made, that this would only lead to the revival of ISIS?
EDMUND GHAREEB: What's interesting first, I find, is that it seems that neoliberals as well as neoconservatives, the hawks and maybe we can call them dovesalthough they do not seem to beare on the same page when it comes to maintaining an empire or continuing to wanting to preserve to keep U.S. forces in numerous places all over the globe. But to specifically talk about ISIS; we have heard time and time againwe heard from the president, we've heard from senior U.S. officials, from some members of Congressthat we have defeated ISIS and that we have dismantled the caliphate. Although the reality is most of the actual work has been done by the Syrian military and their allies, whether it's Russia, Iran, or Hezbollah, but not by the international coalition. ISIS is now very much isolated. There are still there maybe a couple of thousand fighters in Syria and maybe something similar or a little less in Iraq.
Yes, there is a chance that they might reemerge. But in fact, if we take a look at the situation on the ground, we find that ISIS now and Al Qaeda have spread beyond Syria, beyond Iraq. We find them in Libya, we find them in Africa, we find them in Afghanistan, you find them in Asia. So basically, these interventions that have been made by foreign powers including the U.S.whether it was the Iraq war, whether it was the Libyan war, whether it was Syria, whether it was Afghanistanforeign interventions have led to chaos and in many ways to the death and wounding of millions of people if you count all over the whole time. And add to that thousands of Americans and the wounding of tens of thousands and to the loss of trillions of dollars. But some people estimate it as somewhere between eight and ten trillion dollars has been the cost of these wars, which could have been used to build the infrastructure in the U.S., to take care of the healthcare, to improve education, or in many other ways.
Basically, the argument is not a very sound argument. Because it was actually the interventions that people like Senator Graham supported very strongly, in Iraq and other areas, that contributed to the rise of ISIS; have contributed a rise of radical extremists. And minorities in the region, be they the Yazidis, be they Christians, be they Kurds, be they Sunnis in non-Sunni areas, be they Shia in non-Shia areas, these are the people who have paid a very, very heavy price in terms of their lives, in terms of their daily basically life, and in terms of their property; and many of them have been forced out. There used to be, for example, about one million four hundred thousand Christians in Iraq. If there are still two hundred and fifty thousand there, that's probably a high figure. So basically, these people have paid a heavy price for these interventions.
So I do not see the argument as a very rational argument that reflects the realities. If it's Iran, did Iran benefit? Iran has very good friendships, good relationships with some of the Kurds in Iraq, some of the Kurds in Syria. That has not been a block from maintaining its relationship. Is Russia really benefiting from this? Russia does not want Turkey to intervene. I have said they want to maintain serious territorial integrity. This is the number one issue for them. While they understand its security issues, it should not intervene in Syria without the approval of the Syrian government. So basically, yes, Turkey may benefit. President Erdogan who has faced problems recently because of the presence of large numbersthree and a half million Syrian refugees in Turkey. And apparently, recently, we have seen reaction mounting in Turkey against the Syrians. The Turks wants them out.
Erdogan may have lost the elections in Istanbul and Ankara because of this. There were other factors as well, also because of his Syrian policy. So basically, he may benefit from this. This may make him look good. Basically his defending Turkey's territorial integrity. Also it may appear he is basically trying to resettle the Syrian refugees in this security zone. And this is going to be a big issue if there is no understanding between the U.S. and Turkey, basically because you cannot settle one and a half million to two million in that area. But even if you do succeed, this is going to be a major problem because this is going to create friction between the people who are living in this area, the indigenous inhabitants and the newcomers. And it's also not sufficient, the area that has been agreed to, at least by the U.S. InitiallyI don't know nowit would not have been sufficient to settle a couple of million Syrian Kurds. So it's really going to be a big problem down the road.
So ultimately, this argument that we have been hearing does not work. The Syrian regime may benefit, but only if there is an agreement reached. I hear that already there is some dialogue going on right now between the Kurdish forces and the Kurdish leadership in Syria and the Syrian regime in Damascus. If that reaches an agreement where we're all understanding, this might lead to some kind of a settlement whereby this would accelerate the movement towards some kind of agreement, an overall Syrian agreement between the regime, the opposition, the Kurds, and others. If that happens, that might be a positive step. But there are a lot of ifs here.
GREG WILPERT: Okay. Well, we're going to have to leave it there. But I'm sure we'll come back to you soon because the situation continues to develop. And it's a really a very key issue not only for the region, but also actually it's playing into the West's politics quite intensely. So we'll probably come back to you. I was speaking to Edmund Ghareeb, historian and expert on the Kurds. Thanks again, Edmund, for having joined us today.
EDMUND GHAREEB: Thank you.
GREG WILPERT: And thank you for joining The Real News Network.
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