RR: I'm for Bernie and I was also for Elizabeth Warren. But, hell, if it comes to it I'd vote for a lamppost over Trump. What I like about Bernie and Elizabeth is the boldness of their ideas, at a time in American history when we desperately need boldness to fight climate change, get big money out of our politics, and make our healthcare system and higher education functional and affordable. The status quo isn't sustainable because if we do nothing we're going to lose our democracy as well as our planet. Incrementalism won't work because these problems are big and they're hitting us fast. Politics as usual won't get us where we need to be because the public has to be mobilized to tackle them. Sanders and Warren both understand this, and they're helping the public to understand as well.
JB: How do we fight back to counteract the status-quo corporate press who echo how dangerous change is and how pursuing such an agenda can't win? It's a powerful meme. All the media is full of hysterical screeds, like Chris Matthews who predicted executions in Central Park. There's a lot of money and energy going into this fear mongering and keeping voters in line, so they make the "safe" aka centrist choice. Otherwise, 'they' warn, we risk guaranteeing Trump another four years. Your thoughts?
RR: We went through this in 2016, of course. I think it very important to convince at least part of the corporate press -- and the Democratic establishment -- that the status quo isn't just unsustainable; it's more dangerous than seeking bold moves that help the lives of average Americans. A Green New Deal might be expensive, but doing nothing about climate change will almost certainly cost far more. If we don't launch something as bold as a Green New Deal, we'll spend trillions coping with the consequences of our failure to be bold. Medicare for All will cost a lot, but the price of doing nothing about America's increasingly dysfunctional healthcare system will soon be in the stratosphere. Investing in universal childcare, public higher education and woefully outdated and dilapidated infrastructure will be expensive too, but the cost of not making these investments would be astronomical. American productivity is already suffering and millions of families can't afford decent childcare, college or housing whose soaring costs are closely related to inadequate transportation and water systems.
Journalists wanting to appear serious about public policy have continued to rip into Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (whose policies are almost as ambitious) for the costs of their proposals but never ask self-styled moderates like Biden how they plan to cope with the costs of doing nothing or too little.
JB: Your new book, THE SYSTEM: WHO RIGGED IT AND HOW TO FIX IT, will be out in a few weeks. The title is intriguing. Does it have anything to say about the fix we're in? What can you tell us about it?
RR: I want readers to see the system as a system, and to understand that power -- who has it, who doesn't, where it's located, how it's exercised -- is the most important characteristic of the system. Amazingly, standard economics and politics leave out power. I also offer ways for the powerless (that is, most of us) to reclaim our economy and democracy. If we don't, we can't possibly fix health care, climate change, big money in politics, widening inequality, institutional racism, or any of the other challenges that must be faced in years to come.
JB: Are we more powerless in the wake of Super Tuesday, Bob? Are affordable healthcare and a sustainable environment or any of the other fixes we desperately need further out of reach now?
RR: Not at all. More Americans now support affordable health care than ever before. A majority wants bold action on the environment. A wealth tax now has the support of most Americans. The problems of widening inequality and political corruption are now more visible, and attracting more attention, than at any time I can remember. Young people in particular -- because their time horizons extend the farthest and they know they'll be around to suffer the consequences of inaction -- are more committed to these causes than any generation I recall.
But the underlying challenge remains the same: Remedying the misallocation of power. None of these goals is achievable if those with great wealth and power continue to dominate our political and economic life.
What's the answer? In the history of the United States, the allocation of power has shifted through wars, depressions, and social movements. Elsewhere, the allocation of power has changed through revolutions, pandemics, plagues, and mass uprisings. Of all these, social movements are the safest. They generate the least ancillary damage, and they are most likely to achieve their aims.
If Joe Biden is the Democratic candidate and Donald Trump is elected to a second term, I wouldn't be surprised if a third party emerged out of the vacuum of what's left of the Democrats and disaffected Republicans who are tired of the corruption, crony capitalism, corporate welfare, dominance of the economy by Wall Street, and dominance of Washington by big money. Perhaps this third party could be the political vehicle of a movement to take back democracy and the economy from what's becoming an oligarchy.
But we must face the fact that the current system is not working. Most people now see it as rigged against them. It has siphoned off much of the wealth of the country for itself, invited demagogues to run for office and pushed voters to elect them, done little to protect the planet from devastating climate change, and drained much of our democracy of its vitality. Those who have great power and resources would be foolish to think that personal philanthropy, corporate social responsibility, and the myths of meritocracy and free-market capitalism will suffice to maintain the current allocation of power. Unless they get out of the way of necessary change, history will hold them responsible for what happens next.
JB: Thanks so much for talking with me again, Bob. It's always an interesting ride. Good luck with your upcoming book launch!
RR: Thanks for the interview, Joan. All the best to you.
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