R: on her pot. And then another one asks, "what do I do with this plant?" Because they got flowers too, and they didn't know how to take care of a plant. They'd never had a plant, they never had a home to live in. That's the story. That's a story that really moved me. Just seeing -
R: how - realizing how something, seeing such a little thing meant so much to these women.
H2: Exactly. Yes.
R: Now of course you know there's Occupy and the Arab Spring. I spent a lot of time at five different Occupy locations particularly New York, Zuccotti Park, and in Philadelphia, but also in Washington and Trenton and in Rhode Island. Yeah for me those were very exciting times and Occupy is still very exciting for me and I believe that it's in-germination. It's not done.
H2: [ss] Yeah
R: There's a lot more to come of it and people are getting really pissed and there's more of this gonna happen. This is not over yet.
H2: Well I believe, I believe it. I think the major media have tried to make it look like it's dead and buried but you know, that the underlying passion and need and rebellion against the top down authority that we've been held under for so long is, it's got to still be brewing. It's got to be, I like your word germinating, because, you know, it's going to pop through the soil again and it's one of those things that it's gonna pop through in so many-different places and in so many different forms that the powers that be aren't going to be able to stomp it out everywhere.
R: You know Woody Guthrie, Woody Guthrie and Howard Zinn have both said that it's gonna take millions of little efforts and actions and changes that are gonna make the big changes happen. And we never know which one it's going to be. I started a - called smallacts.org, small a c t s .org because I really believe that it's very often, and I just had somebody write an article about it the other day about avalanches, I think you commented on that article too, Burl, that, sometimes an avalanche takes, the sound of the snap of a twig to move hundreds of thousands or millions of tons of snow and ice.
R: And I think that could be the case and it probably will be the case when it comes to the changes that are going to happen here in the United States. It was very exciting for me to learn about Horizontalism. The HorizontalidadMovement of Argentina that Marina Sitrin has written about. In Argentina, the people took down the government then they did it again and again.
R: They did it in Egypt. Now they have problems there, they got a military that is, is, is bad news but and, and that's part of the p-challenge. It's not like you can dismantle all of the top down systems. It's going to be difficult, it's going to be hard to - to do this but people can do it and we're seeing it happen and there's a meme. Bottom Up is a meme that is spreading to our culture that is literally changing the way young people's brains work.