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When Mueller closes in on Trump with irrefutable evidence, Trump will run but he can't hide

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Special Prosecutor Mueller is getting very close to making a formal request for Trump to meet with him to answer pertinent questions relative to the Russian interference in our election system. So far Trump has given out countless declarations about whether he would or would not meet with Mueller but you can bet that, when he thinks about the facts and evidence that Mueller undoubtedly has, he will refuse.

He will be, in effect running away from an opportunity to clear his name.

We may well see Trump, enraged after his personal lawyer Michael Cohen's office and home were subjected to a surprise raid and search by the FBI, decide to fire Rod Rosenstein, the Justice Dept. Deputy Attorney General , to whom Mueller reports. Many in Washington feel that could happen any time, any day.

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In any case Mueller will go forward and take either of two options. He could finish the investigation and then submit a report to Congress laying down all the facts and evidence he has gathered. His desire would be that Congress would thereafter initiate an impeachment process but the chances of this Trump-controlled Congress, no more than modern-day serfs and peasants, doing that are around zero to none.

While some say that he doesn't have the legal authority to serve Trump with a subpoena to appear before a grand jury I believe he will go ahead and do exactly that. This may end up in the courts with the final decision made by the U.S. Supreme Court. Will the decision be that Mueller can go forward with the subpoena? Who knows but let's say that the courts rule in his favor.

Mueller will then go ahead and attempt to serve the subpoena to Trump at the White House. And that's where the trouble really begins as Trump will order his Secret Service detail to man all the doors and not allow any subpoena server in. Trump will be taking the extraordinary action to barricade himself in the White House.

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He will be trying to hide from the long arm of the law but that's never going to work because, in the end, one cannot hide from the truth.

This eruption in the government will then initiate a full blown Constitutional crisis, something that has never before happened in America's history. He will not stay barricaded in the White House indefinitely and the marshals will be waiting outside to take him into custody. If it appeared that he was not coming out it's entirely possible that marshals, possibly supported by a special military unit, would initiate a forced entry and take him into custody.

Could this actually happen? Well, when Trump is involved in anything, no matter what it is, there is no way to predict what might happen or what he is capable of doing. So yes it most certainly could happen at almost any time, maybe tomorrow. .

And one more important aspect of this entire investigation. Mueller, and I believe he already is doing this, has wisely been making copies of all these investigative records containing all the accumulated facts and evidence, and has stored them in some secure place.

One way or another, whether Mueller is fired or not, dedicated career personnel at the Justice Dept. and the FBI will see that this investigation will go on no matter what Trump tries to do. One thing is very clear; if Trump were totally innocent of any wrongdoing involving collusion or obstruction of justice he would meet with Mueller as requested and be entirely confident that he would be fully exonerated and what he said time and time again over many months, "no collusion, no collusion" would become a reality.

Trump would never do that and he will continue to try to run and hide but he can never escape the long arm of the law. .

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Michael Payne is an independent, progressive activist. His writings deal with social, economic, political and foreign policy issues. He is a featured writer on Opednews and Nation of Change and his articles have appeared on many other websites (more...)
 

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Michael Payne

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Trump would never do that and he will continue to try to run and hide but he can never escape the long arm of the law. .

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 3:23:15 PM

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Are you kidding? Russiagate is a joke. There has been no evidence whatsoever revealed to support these ludicrous allegations. There have been countless repetitions of myth such as the 17 intelligence agencies reaching a conclusion that Russia interfered with the 2016 election when in fact only a few hand picked individuals from 3 agencies made statements reflecting that conclusion. That has every earmark of a politically motivated action by individuals motivated by their own agenda and no earmarks of a legitimate inquiry. You may remember that that tactic was used by Bush and Chaney to provide support for the illegal invasion of Iraq. Mueller has apparently found no evidence whatsoever to support these ridiculous claims. He wants to question Trump in order to try to bait him into making false statements, which may not be a bad bet since Trump is always inclined to shoot his mouth off rather than think things through before speaking. It should also be remembered that Mueller does not have a stellar record. He fully supported the violations of the 4th amendment by the Bush administration (and continued by the Obama administration) after 9-11. Contrary to what many believe, Mueller is not a man of integrity.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 5:17:46 PM

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These talking points are getting old. No evidence whatsoever? Or, "not a shred", as the mantra goes? Only if you wear a blindfold, plug your ears and hum to yourself.

Eventually, either you'll be humming a different tune, or I will. We'll have to see.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 5:29:50 PM

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Daniel Geery

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Present the evidence, Maxwell, and I'll be a happy camper.


P.S. I continue to appreciate your heartfelt and extensive efforts, Michael, but seriously, we have yet to see a single fact in this regard. Also, I can't help but note that the single possibly saving grace for Trump is his stated desire to get along with Russia.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 5:36:07 PM

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Trump's "stated desire to get along with Russia" is as meaningless as most of his policy positions. If it were true, why are we so close to going to war over some internet pirates in St. Petersburg, especially when it was American Corporations that did the most damage to the "election"?

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 5:47:21 PM

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I realize this is opinion, but based on the vast amount I've read on the first statement, I think DT does want to get along with Russia--and why not, after 20 years of detente? But he is a consummate coward and "the Hillary Machine" is doing it's damnedest to take him down. As a side note, I voted for Jill and only wish everyone else did.


As a short answer to your question, John Bolton and the CIA come promptly to mind. We clearly need an enemy for our economy to run "properly." Anything else is intolerable!

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:22:53 PM

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I can't present the hard evidence because I don't have it, but the circumstantial evidence is as plentiful as the air we breathe: the known meetings between Trump campaign staff and Russians; the failed Moscow Trump Tower bid; the pennies on the dollar Trump real estate bailouts by Russians; the fact the DNC email did get breached, by someone; the fact that viral "fake news" did flood the Internet, from somewhere; the senseless politically charged firing of Comey, if he had nothing to hide; the Steele dossier; changing stories and alibis as far as the ear can hear.

"...single possibly saving grace for Trump is his stated desire to get along with Russia."

Yes, laudable. But considering his willingness to piss off every leader on the face of the earth save for Putin, suspicious nonetheless. Along with the Russia friendly party platform change.

Also the fact that the US has done plenty of covert f*cking with Russia and Putin doesn't seem prone to turning the other cheek.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:04:05 PM

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Fair enough, and I appreciate the time and effort in your comment. And I thus have to agree with you on this: "Eventually, either you'll be humming a different tune, or I will. We'll have to see."


With the minor exception that I'd change "We'll have to see," to "I have already seen," though I'm glad that you appear to have an open mind.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:28:55 PM

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P.S. Here is one link worth checking out, imho: click here

Should that motivate you to learn more, just do some searches on Debbie's other links and videos on this topic.

And please! Don't forget the clear and irrefutable influence of AIPAC.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:35:22 PM

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I'm not nearly so co*k sure Mueller has the goods than everyone else seems to be he doesn't.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 8:09:24 PM

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p.s. (hilarious, that PC filter) The hard evidence may be forthcoming--or not. Prosecutors or counsels, special or general, who have broad tools of discovery such as subpoenas and indictments, don't as a rule let trickle out, day by day, what they have discovered. Certainly, Starr didn't. The fact is, except for a very few people, nobody knows what Mueller has or doesn't have. The daily speculation--either he's got him or he hasn't, depending on which camp you're in--is absurd. Could he be bluffing and stalling for time? Maybe. Could he be stalling in order that his information dump--assuming he gets to dump it--has the maximum effect on the midterm elections? Hell, yes! (and ask me how troubled I am by that possibility).

I consider myself far more open minded on the topic than anyone else here (and I will say Michael may have his feet a little too planted in the other camp. Of course, he knew what he was in for when he posted this article). We'll just have to see. It will come to some kind of end. As Edward likes to say, one of us will be eating crow.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 1:16:00 AM

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Michael Payne

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Here's where my feet are planted. As I have said time and again no one knows anything whatsoever about whether evidence exists or not, except Mueller and he is not ready to conclude his investigation. I will wait and be patient until he does. If he has no real evidence then I will accept that; if he does then I will accept that also. And I have made no secret that my greatest wish is that he does have a massive amount of evidence by which he can drive Trump out of office and into political oblivion.

Now as I also have said this article is not the kind I usually write; it is one part sarcasm, one part cynicism, some fantasy thrown in, together with some very serious conjecture that, if Mueller has the goods on him and Trump knows exactly what he has -- that he is entirely capable of, looney enough, to actually barricade himself in the White House. If someone wants to call my article a big spoof then they have that right.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 5:30:16 PM

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In that case we are in total agreement.

I have to 'fess that while I consider myself to have a good eye for satire (as well as a wicked propensity to indulge in it myself) that one went past me.

I truly believe Trump is not quite that deranged, and that his forcible ejection from office (for only the second time in US history) is a long shot. The best outcome I see is enough irrefutable information comes to light where members of the mainstream GOP (if there is such a thing any more) have to choose between continuing to enable him and going down in flames.

Also, if the Russian government chose to help their candidate in order to destabilize the US and undermine confidence in the electoral system they would need to take a good hard look in the mirror and consider their present platforms and strategies. Not that the Democrats have all that much more to be proud of.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 11:11:10 PM

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Michael Payne

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While I try to stay neutral and just wait for Mueller to present his findings I haven't said what I really think is going to happen I will do so right now. I am going to predict here and now that in the not too distant future we are going to see a massive eruption in Washington D.C. such as we have never seen in U.S. history. It will stun and shock this country and the entire world and it will truly be a constitutional crisis like no other.

I am convinced that Mueller has a mountain of evidence and that Trump now knows exactly what that is. For those who have been paying close attention to what he has been saying his words are clearly those of a guilty man. Anyone who was truly innocent would just ignore Mueller and concentrate on doing his job. But Trump gives every indication of being ready to implode as he knows what is going to happen.

We'll have to wait for Mueller on collusion but if I ever saw someone who has made a case against himself re: obstruction he is the one. There ae so many instances of his tweets and video and audio in which he has done everything in his power to try to take down this investigation, to interfere with it and to use every sort of lie to discredit it. It's all there and it's all clearly documented. Why would you do that unless you had all sorts of things to hide? This guy's baggage is so heavy and completely full it's about to burst.

This is a man who, if he could, would totally muzzle the press and remove the only obstacle standing in the way of a fascist state, the power of the free press. This man has no understanding of the Constitution and he has shown that he believes that he is above the law. Trump has turned the Republicans into no more than modern-day serfs and peasants who now lick his boots. This guy is cut out of the same cloth as some of the most powerful dictators in the history of the world.

Just watch and see if my prediction comes true; that Washington DC will have a massive eruption that will trigger a Constitutional crisis like no other.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 12:59:55 AM

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Daniel Geery

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I meant to respond sooner but didn't find the time. So I'm dictating this and keeping it fairly short. David Swanson some months ago had a wonderful article on all the reasons Trump could already be impeached. But as he noted, the political will isn't there. So even if we had more evidence,, it's unlikely that anything will happen. As in if we wanted it to happen, it could already have happened. My next concern would be getting Pence in, which freaks me out greatly. And the yet more underlying problem is that we have a genuine Killing Empire Economy that is not about to disappear. Meaning, in other words, these baboons are just symptoms of the larger system, which any politician who seriously tries to attack gets rapidly snuffed. I would cite Dennis Kucinich and Cynthia McKinney as two examples. That's rather it in a nutshell, but I reiterate that it appears to me we have the same ultimate goals for a better planet for everyone and I don't think we should allow our different strategies or thoughts on them to divide us or make us aggressively attack each other. There is nothing more I can imagine that the power elite would like to see than our continued self-division. But all for now, stay well. Dan

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 2:41:01 PM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Daniel Geery:   New Content

I appreciate you insightful comments. There is no doubt that we share the same ultimate goals for this country and the world. So there's nothing wrong with having various ways to get there as long as they are based on adherence to the principles of ethics and morality. That is no longer the case in this Congress and those principles are disappearing rapidly from our society.

I may be somewhat more aggressive and vociferous than you when I go after those who I really feel do not have the best interests of this country and its people in mind. For example as a great many members of Congress do, advance the interests of the Corporatists and have rejected government of, by, and for the people.

I also think it is imperative that we all try to deal with these issues by relying on concrete facts and evidence instead of just doggedly sticking to baseless opinions.

So keep doing what you're doing and so will I and maybe we can make some kind of positive impact on what is happening all around us.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 4:18:15 PM

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Daniel:

Please read my comments below to Ms Nan and Lois Gagnon. How can anyone present any evidence pro or con about this matter. I'm absolutely astounded by remarks by those who say that there is concrete evidence and those who are adamant that there is none of any kind. No one knows squat about evidence one way or another and we will never know until Mueller either produces it or if he does not.

Can't everyone understand that uncontestable fact? If I asked any one of these experts on this issue to prove their contentions there is no way in the world that they could begin to do it.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 10:57:25 PM

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Ok, so perhaps line "No evidence whatsoever" is slightly "over the top". But the "evidence" available to us is woefully inadequate to prove much of anything.


While Trump is a beard for the mafia, there's at least as much "evidence", if not more, proving that Hillary laundered money for her campaign through the State Parties.


I'd be happy to see them both in jail, but don't believe it will be happening. Even if they are convicted of mass murder (this is a hyperbolic statement meant to emphasize the point) -- the Imperial State will live on.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 5:43:55 PM

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Please tell what evidence has been produced and where one may learn about it.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 3:56:34 PM

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I can't remember ever seeing a more baseless, empty evaluation of the Mueller investigation. There are so many baseless opinions that clearly indicate that you have no idea whatsoever of what is going on and I'll speak to just one of them whereby you said, "Mueller has apparently found no evidence whatsoever to support these ridiculous claims." Well, sir then just tell us exactly how you have made that determination.

You don't know that, you have no way of knowing that. For the umpteenth time I'll say to you and all others who think just like you -- you don't know anything about what Mueller has or does not have, I have no idea for certain, and no one except Mueller and his team know what facts and evidence he may have.

So you and all your fellow Trump supporters who readily accept and condone his daily ripping and tearing down of the principles of ethics and morality just need to remain silent on an issue about which you know absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada, nichts.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 9:19:17 PM

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The joke's on you with your remarks, none of which make sense and your contentions are baseless.

There is not one thing you said that has any merit or truth except that Trump is a loose cannon that can explode at any given time.

Mueller has found NO evidence? Well, all you need to do is to show us the exact evidence that you have to support that contention. I'll be waiting for your response.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 11:07:38 PM

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The impending constitutional crisis I see coming is when Trump decides he has nothing to lose, and goes ahead and attempts to fire Mueller, or fires Rosenstein. At that point the GOP majority in Congress, if it continues to go along with the game, may suppress the report. I've no doubt there are backup copies of all his work, but since they presumably contain classified information, to divulge them to the public would be a felony. What happens after that, I'm not sure. Hopefully a "blue wave", though the current Democratic party hardly deserves such a victory.

The silver lining would be the "not a shred of evidence" crowd would presumably STFU, since there is no way Trump would do something that high stakes legally and politically if he had nothing to hide.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 5:41:36 PM

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"Impending constituional crisis"? Please. The crisis was a fait accompli the day it was drafted and left out a ban on slavery. This kind of pretentious posturing over legal quodlibets has more in common with that other bullshit fiction: the "strong economy." Neither has the slightest impact one way or the other on the lives of regular americans sinking deeper and deeper into a morass created by the constitutionally legal gaming of the system by the neocon/neoliberals partying in the beltway. And spare me the de rigueur response that "the firing of Mueller will lead to this, which will lead to that" blah blah. We've arrived at "that" 73 years ago when the US became a military state in defiance of the Declaration of Independence's proscription against a standing army.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 5:59:09 PM

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Reply to John Lawrence Ré:   New Content

Nonetheless, it will be come an impasse, if you object to the terminology.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:05:18 PM

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Daniel Geery

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Reply to John Lawrence Ré:   New Content

I would so love to disagree with you, but I have no facts to back me up!

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:39:26 PM

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Reply to John Lawrence Ré:   New Content

Trying to delete a repeat of previous comment but can't seem to.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:52:12 PM

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Maxwell

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Reply to John Lawrence Ré:   New Content

I didn't mean "constitutional crisis" as a genuflection, only to mean that at that point the legal protocols defining the separation of powers would come to a halt, as happened when Nixon got his special prosecutor fired. (BTW they did fix the slavery shortcoming with the thirteenth amendment).

Some bloviators said Bill Clinton getting away with lying under oath was a "constitutional crisis". In principle it is true that lying under oath by a high official is a big deal, but the devil is in the details. Which were that a special prosecutor, initially empowered to investigate a possibly fraudulent real estate deal had expanded his inquiry to include a civil matter about a woman claiming unwelcome proposition and naughty bit exposure. The case had little potential for legal resolution--it was "he said, she said"--until Starr got him to give a legal deposition and sprang the Lewinsky perjury trap on him. I found the implication the republic might fall because the POTUS lied about an infidelity to his wife rather silly. I was willing to let it go as merely a public testament to Clinton's less than stellar moral character. Apparently the public agreed with me, though it shouldn't necessarily have been allowed to stand because of that.

In my opinion the current occupant of the Oval Office is a moral sinkhole, in comparison to whom Bill Clinton is a saint. And if Mueller ever got him to testify against the advice of his lawyers, which he supposedly wants to do, there would undoubtedly be about 500 perjury traps waiting for him. He would happily walk into every one of them since, to paraphrase Mary McCarthy, every word he utters is a lie including "and" and "the".

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 10:21:26 PM

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John Lawrence Ré

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Reply to Maxwell:   New Content

Remember when Jay Leno would look over to Kevin Eubanks and ask semi-rhetorically, "what's my favorite source of jokes?" and Kevin would respond on cue, "Stupid Criminal Jokes, Jay." Well, like Leno, I'm consistently harping on a single topic: Stupid Liberal Fckups. Like the stupid criminal who parks the getaway car by a fire hydrant, liberals are so caught up in the euphoria of their group bonding they are bound to fck up. The group substituition of moral righteousness for logic and critical thinking that incubated in the 60s is more like a road of broken dreams than the 60s revolution they -- we -- thought was taking place. And the number one reason for this ongoing fiasco is the liberal's innate inability to recognize priorities from inside the belly of the beast.

For example, you say: "...in comparison to whom [i.e., Trump] Bill Clinton is a saint." As a response I've pasted part of a letter I sent to Kevin Spacey when he asked me to sign a birthday card for Clinton:

"Hey Kevin -- Are you asking me to send good wishes to Bill Clinton? You mean the guy who oversaw the training of hired assassins, a/k/a the Contras, in Arkansas before their deployment to murder villagers in Nicaragua; who deregulated Wall Street for the ruling 400; who stepped up the faux war on drugs to mask the purge of local tribes to benefit multinational mining interests; who accelerated globalization at the expense of the globe itself; who turned down a Sudanese offer to hand over Osama bin Laden; who repealed Glass-Steagall throwing open the boiler room hatches for the benthic parasites that now sit atop the food chain; who screwed 12 old year French sex slaves on Jeffrey Epstein's island; who created the myth of Iraqi WMD; who demonstrated to America's youth that cheating is OK because even presidents do it with impunity? That Bill Clinton? No thanks."

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:58:53 PM

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shad williams

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Reply to John Lawrence Ré:   New Content

I really enjoy your commentary. Stay vigilant.

Submitted on Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 1:25:02 PM

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John Zwiebel

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Reply to Maxwell:   New Content

Trump does all kinds of things that make no sense. Your claim that "there is no way Trump would do something that high stakes legally" is wishful thinking.

As far as "evidence" against Trump, what is it that is so overwhelming to you that you are convinced Mueller will "get him".

To be fair, we need to understand the scope of what is actually being discussed.

Russiagate is a Clinton campaign fraud meant to distract voters from the reasons she lost. It is what Rachael Maddow is propagandizing every night. Claims that the Internet Research Agency swayed the election are ridiculous on its face.

Speaking of the stolen election, Greg Palast's latest version of "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" is on Amazon Prime. The election was stolen by "Patriotic Americans", and Clinton's incompetence.

The Trump campaign -may- have colluded with Russia, but so far all we have are meetings between members of the Trump campaign and various Russians. Since when is it a crime to talk to a Russian? Why isn't it a crime to talk to a North Korean (for instance).

(end part 1)

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:21:43 PM

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John Zwiebel

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Reply to Maxwell:   New Content

(Part 2)

OK, let's look at the Trump Tower meeting that was suppose to be about "orphans", but was actually suppose to be about "digging up dirt" on Clinton. If that meeting is a crime, then why isn't the DNC funding of the Steele Dossier a crime?


As far as exactly what Mueller is investigating, no one really knows. Everything we do know of supposed substance is based on partisan leaks from unknown sources, no names attached to anything, except for Trump's continuous denial of Collusion.


Even the Washington Post is only publishing What we believe Mueller is investigating and little in this article points directly at Trump.


Paul Manafort's problems stem more from the overthrow of the Ukraine government than anything he had to do with Trump. And Clinton was deeply involved in that fiasco.


While there's a lot of smoke, where's the fire? All we really have is smoke in our eyes. I think it is more likely that this is a covert attempt by the "Deep State*" to overthrow the government of the USA.


*"Deep State", I welcome a better description of the conflicts that arise between the various "mafia-like" oligarch crime organizations that are each seeking more control over our lives and which care little for "law", but only for power and economic control.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:23:55 PM

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Daniel Geery

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Reply to John Zwiebel:   New Content

Well, John, you should not come down on Rachel Maddow! I'd conceivably say the same bullshit for what she's paid, not unlike Sean Hannity, my other hero: click here

P.S. Though I'd like to think I wouldn't, and truly don't believe I would.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:46:27 PM

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Nelson Wight

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Michael, I think you have too much faith that this country still operates from legality or laws/constitutionally.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 5:49:46 PM

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Reply to Nelson Wight:   New Content

I do appreciate that faith, as do many of my best friends, but I sadly fail to share it, try as I might and do.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 6:50:07 PM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Nelson Wight:   New Content

You know what? I have lost much of that faith and think that this country, because of its thoroughly corrupted, Corporate-controlled government, is on a direct path to moral and economic collapse; it's that bad.


However, I'm one who will never, ever give up on trying to reverse this situation and let's say, I will try to do everything in my power to right this ship to prevent it from going down and sinking. So I'm going to keep; on doing what I'm doing and we'll see what happens.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 12:09:41 AM

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Nelson Wight

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Michael, I want to believe you always have good intentions.
I developed a liking for you as a fellow human being.
I think you are trying awfully hard to present your thoughts, yet I often find it awfully trying.
It seems to me that much of what you say with fingers on
the keyboard could best be described as an end product of
your alimentary canal.

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:29:13 PM

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Ms Nan

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  New Content
"He will not stay barricaded in the White House indefinitely and the marshals will be waiting outside to take him into custody. If it appeared that he was not coming out it's entirely possible that marshals, possibly supported by a special military unit, would initiate a forced entry and take him into custody."

Fantasy land.





Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 7:09:06 PM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Ms Nan:   New Content

Ms Nan:

I'm surprised that you didn't recognize this particular technique of writing the formula of which is: start with a bit of satire, throw in some sarcasm and cynicism and then a heathy dose of deadly serious comments; yeah, some might think of it also as a kind of fantasy.

Anyone one who thinks that Trump, who is capable of actions and behavior that would include him barricading himself in the WH better think again and more deeply. When Mueller has him cornered he will have no way to escape and who in the world knows what he will do? But in the end, as I have said many time, I think that, without a doubt, he will resign.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 10:39:16 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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As long as Trump resides in the White House, the Democrats and their loyalists in the media and power structure will keep pushing the Russiagate narrative. It will never amount to anything as there is nothing there.

It's all designed to prevent the masses from focusing on the deterioration of our circumstances both domestically and globally. Sad to see it still working so well on so many.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 8:23:59 PM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

Lois: "There is nothing there." Well I didn't know you had the psychic powers to make that determination. That's simply amazing!


You don't know that, you have no way of knowing that. For the umpteenth time I'll say to you and all others who think just like you -- you don't know anything about what Mueller has or does not have, I have no idea for certain, and no one except Mueller and his team know what facts and evidence he may have.

Submitted on Friday, May 4, 2018 at 10:42:16 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Your article is filled with nothing but speculation. It's all your opinion so you really should not be so defensive when people express theirs just because it differs from yours.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 1:16:52 AM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

Oh I'm not being defensive at all, I'm always on the offense going after those who make statements like "It will never amount to anything as there is nothing there." And when those who make these totally baseless, empty, unsupportive statements can do nothing to back them up except to talk about someone else being defensive then they show clearly that they have no credibility.

Want to prove me wrong, want to show how you are right? Well, all you need to do is to take that statement of yours, ""It will never amount to anything as there is nothing there" and explain to all of us in explicit terms how that is the case and that is what will actualy happen.

Are you up to the task or are you simply someone who makes these kinds of baseless statements when you have no capacity whatsoever to back them up. Let's see if you can find some way to prove your empty contention or will you simply disappear from the discussion. I think the answer to that question should be clear to everyone.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 2:25:50 AM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Here's a fact for you. William Binney former NSA intelligence expert performed tests using overseas computers in various countries to see if it was possible to hack the DNC computers from those locations. The tests confirmed it was not possible as the download speeds were too slow. A thumbdrive however was a match for download speed. So it was a leak, not a hack. Why will Mueller not confirm this finding in his investigation?

The press has hurled the typical epithet of conspiracy theorist at Binney while refusing to offer up one iota of refuting evidence to his findings.

The Mueller investigation has gotten so far off track that it has had to rely on foolish accusations against troll farms in an attempt to keep this lead balloon in the air.

Mueller has had a year and a half to produce evidence of collusion with the Russian government in the 2016 election. If he hasn't produced anything substantial at this point it's because there's no there there.

I find it rather alarming that so many people continue to cling to this obviously phony attempt to distract the public from the real threats to our well being carried out by forces not in public view.

Yeah, Trump is all the horrible things people say he is. But he is just the disturbing face of what lies beneath the surface of this desperate and dying Empire. Mueller is the face of the lies and deception used to keep people believing we still have some semblance of democracy. We don't. And even if Mueller uses some questionable infractions to prosecute Trump, so what? The charade will continue.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 3:33:33 AM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

Well you know what? As I continue to say no one knows for sure what is really involved here, what the evidence is and what Mueller and his team have -- absolutely no one knows and yet some have drawn conclusions that "there is nothing there" such as you or there is no evidence whatsoever. Talk about speculation and supposition, that's it at its highest order. You believe Binney and you can't even begin to prove that he is right so don't come up with more worthless speculation.

You and others can criticize me all you want but I am going to continue to do what most of respected investigative analysts and observers are going to do. We think there is something big about to explode on the Washington scene but we will be patient and wait for Mueller to finally, finally conclude his investigation.

And if there is evidence of collusion or obstruction supported by concrete facts then we will see what's next. And if he concludes that there isn't then all this will end. My best advice to you and the many like you is to sit back and simply do the same thing and quit trying to create some sort of scenario that is simply not there.

Do I think that this can be done; absolutely not because when minds are made up to create certain outcomes they rarely If ever can be brought back to reality.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 3:54:10 AM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

My advice is to practice what you preach. You keep on speculating with every article, reject scientific evidence as speculation and then tell the nonbelievers to be quiet until Mueller has finished his investigation. As I said, the likely scenario is the investigation will be ongoing until Trump leaves the White House.

Pardon me for being a skeptic, but we've been inundated with so much political theater that turned out to be lies, it would be foolish to believe this scenario will turn out differently.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 4:21:04 AM

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Maxwell

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(Image by opednews.com/populum/imageattribution.php?p=YTozOntpOjA7aTo4NTIxOTtpOjE7czoyMToiL3BvcHVsdW0vY29tbWVudHMucGhwIjtpOjI7czoxOiJ5Ijt9) Permission Details DMCA

"As long as Trump resides in the White House, the Democrats and their loyalists in the media and power structure will keep pushing the Russiagate narrative."

Robert Mueller: registered Republican

Rod Rosenstein: registered Republican

James Comey: registered Republican

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 1:19:32 AM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Maxwell:   New Content

All loyalists to the Washington imperialist agenda which favors the corporate Democrats at the moment since an outsider undermined their plans.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 3:09:31 AM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

Yep, you're sure right about those Corporate Democrats; as we know they are the ones who gave that massive $1.5 trillion tax giveaway to Corporate America and the wealthiest Americans. You kind of got things a bit twisted and backwards but keep on covering up for the sociopathic Republicans and that outsider who is draining the Democratic swamp.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 6:58:07 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Yep. Divide and conquer still works as long as people think the Democrats are better than the Republicans. You know, the ones who deregulated the banks so they could crash the economy, the media that is owned by 6 corporations now, turned 2 illegal wars into 7, keep throwing more money at the Pentagon that can't account for $21 trillion etc.

It should be obvious by now to even the most casual observer that the establishment wants Russia to be just another vassal state to the Western oligarchs. That's exactly what happened under Yeltzin, but then Putin came along and spoiled their plans so now he must be vilified by any and all means.

Seriously, this stuff is way too obvious at this point. Continue to believe if you must, but don't expect me to be snookered by the psychopaths running this failing Empire. I gave that up years ago.

As long as Trump plays along his job is safe and that's exactly what he's been doing. The Mueller investigation will be used to keep him in line until the next presidential election. If he steps too far out of line, they'll cook something up to oust him. That's how the game is played.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 7:41:12 PM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

Wow, you know all these things, you no doubt have an inside the Mueller investigation source. You know really important aspects of this situation that no one else knows. But if there is any chance of any kind that the Russians are guilty as charged and they are trying to damage our democracy I will give Mueller the benefit of the doubt. And that's why my loyalty is to this country above all, not to this government and you will never hear me talk about all the good things Putin is doing and how nice Russia is. Some of this kind of talk borders on treason.


And anyone who thinks Democrats are the same as sociopathic destructionist, obstructionist, low level gutter Republicans has delusional problems.

Submitted on Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 10:07:46 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Wow! Talk is treason? Plus, you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. Anyone who dares to question the official narrative on Russia is automatically called a Russian bot or a Putin apologist. Now it's treason. Scary stuff.

This is the the authoritarianism that has been embraced by unhinged liberals in response to 2016.

Very revealing Michael.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 1:26:12 AM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

I said some of this kind of talk borders on treason. I want to make this very clear. I have watched and listened as some Americans that have appeared on various cable and network news shows, as well as some on this website, have done everything they can to act as defense attorneys or apologists to try to convince others that the Russians have not engaged in interference in our election system when it has been proven that they most certainly did; and they have strongly supported the team of Putin and Trump against Mueller and his team. Now when you clearly use all the means at your disposal, in a very serious national dilemma and you take the side of a foreign nation, in this case Russia, against your own country then you are most certainly doing something bordering on treason.

Each and every one of us is on one side of this issue or the other and some of us, by our own stated words, are taking positions bordering on treason. As I continue to state my primary allegiance is to my country and its people first and foremost. I have little to no use for this government, mainly because of its corrupted Congress but I will stand by its law enforcement agencies as long as I don't see them clearly going around the laws of the land.

So when I see Flynn and then Mantafort and Papadopolous and others indicted and some of hem have pled guilty its evident that Mueller is using them as building blocks to get to the top and that means Trump and his family, then I know what's going on and most likely what will happen.

So each one of us has to examine ourselves, think about loyalty to our country versus trying to defend and make excuses for other governments, especially communist governments, and then we will know on which side we are really on. And some of those who do this are doing treasonous thinking and others are not. It's not the least bit difficult to tell the difference.

And this will end my part in this discussion.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 2:16:41 AM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Which communist government would that be? Russia? And Russian interference in our election has by no means been proven beyond any doubt. Seriously, it hasn't.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 2:46:30 AM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

So let's do this: when I write my articles on issues I spend hours and hours digging for facts and comparing many varied positions to try to arrive at the truth, the facts. Here are two links that relate to the issue of Russian interference and I could come up with an endless number of others that come from various sources but have reached the same conclusions; that Russia most certainly did interfere in our election process.

Polifact.com is in the business of fact checking, to determine the truth on matters, that's what they do they have a great reputation. Then the FBI, the Dept. of Homeland Security, and various national intelligent agencies have reached the same conclusions.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/2016-presidential-campaign-hacking-fast-facts/index.html

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/dec/12/2017-lie-year-russian-election-interference-made-s/

Now here is what I would like you to do; all these key, law enforcement agencies unanimously agree that the Russians did, in fact, interfere in our elections. On the other hand you believe that they are not correct and that Russia did no such thing.

So all you have to do then is to provide concrete facts and evidence backed by specific documentation to prove your point and prove these other agencies wrong. Facts and evidence, documentation, not the usual baseless and totally unsupported opinions.

So we'll be waiting for your response.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 3:14:59 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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click here

click here

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 7:56:40 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Your sources are highly questionable and quite frankly don't prove anything.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 8:00:53 PM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

Well I have reviewed the contentions by William Binney where he talks about the fact that this could not have been hacking but was a leak and all that about data transmission speeds. And I have read Parry's articles where he was acting as defense attorney and chief apologist for Putin and Russia. Let's just say this: if Binney was correct then why in hell hasn't Pompeo come out and strongly agreed with Binney's contentions? And why in the world isn't Trump using them as proof of "no collusion."

None of this conspiracy theory by Binney, Parry or Ray McGovern has ever been given the least credibility by any respected journalist or news organization unless, perhaps, Fox News. But of course you buy it lock, stock and barrel. It's a pile of bull and I will go with all the various agencies who have stated that it was Russian hacking. To think that s numbers of key individuals who have looked into this matter would all be controlled and made to say that this was hacking when they know it never happened is crazy thinking.

The more you say the more you show yourself to be one of those blinded individuals who believe every lie that Trump says. Maybe you saw the Washington Post report that says that fact checker has now determined that Trump has made more than 3000 lies or deliberate misstatements since he took office.

I'm not going to look the other way, act as if this entire hacking matter is all contrived, and then strongly defend and support a pathological liar and a foreign power. That's clearly what you continue to do. Until I see different documentation with concrete proof that this hacking never happened, I am going to be on the side of this country when its democracy is under attack.

On the other hand, you can continue to defend Putin, the Russians, Trump and all those trying to kill this investigation; and that is a clear indication of exactly who and what you are, and what you stand for.

.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 10:49:43 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Once again, you put words in my mouth. I have never once defended Trump. Equating questioning the official Russiagate narrative with supporting Trump is typical McCarthyist gaslighting.

If you only trust corporate monopolized sources of information that do nothing but parrot state propaganda then there is no point in discussing current events with you. Don't forget the late Robert Parry was an investigative reporter for Associated Press and News
Week before he got tired of being muzzled and started Consortium News. I think it's tragic that you dismiss his award winning reporting that many of us dearly miss.

It is also sad that you so readily dismiss VIPS. They have no reason to lie about their findings. Might they not be the true patriots?

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 1:33:40 AM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

By your words, by your baseless condemnation of this investigation and your continued insistence that Russia did not interfere with our election system, when hundreds of highly professional analysts who are 1000 times more qualified than you, you are making the case for Trump. That's what he does, he does everything he can to discredit others when he can't get his way, he tries to destroy this investigation, he lies and lies and lies about no collusion, no collusion. He says the hacking never took place. And you are saying the exact same thing when you have no qualifications whatsoever, none of any kind, to make that judgment.

If you were credible you would do what most of us out here in America are doing. While we may have strong feelings one way or another we will wait patiently to see what Mueller has or does not have and then we will make our final judgment. Now did Parry prove anything, did the VIPs prove anything at all, they did not prove a thing and the case they put forth was no more than speculation, just one more conspiracy theory to discredit this investigation.

And you know what? Even though Mueller is not perfect and he has been subject to some criticism for things he did or didn't do in the past, I would take him over Trump, you, Parry (and I was sorry to hear of his death) and Binney and all the rest of the naysayers any day any time anywhere. This is all about professionalism and credibility and he wins hands down until we see him proven to be entirely wrong.

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:43:47 AM

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Lois Gagnon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

"Good journalists are never forgiven. That's why they're good journalists."

~John Pilger~


Amen.

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:27:30 PM

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Maxwell

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Michael, you go way too far with your "borders on treason". People are unconditionally entitled to express their opinions no matter how wrong headed. In cases of the US versus other countries, the US is often flat out wrong, even against communist countries. Maybe even especially against communist countries. People wanted to call supporting Ho Chi Min, instead of the corrupt people the US was supporting, treason. People wanted to call the opposition to the "commander in chief's" desire to invade Iraq treason. Anyway the notion of communism as a monolithic doctrine whose end goal is to engulf the entire world has been long debunked.

I'm a little surprised and concerned about your "borders on treason" accusation.

Submitted on Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 10:33:02 PM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Maxwell:   New Content

Well let's not pull any punches and tell it like it is. I have heard any number of comments on various areas of the news that continue to attack Mueller and this investigation and side with Trump who, by his constant lies and denials, is clearly showing evidence of guilt and obstruction of justice. I have been listening to Trump's constant lies and also those like Lois who quite apparently accept and condone almost all of them and I'm going to do everything I can to fight back against all of these people who seem to be not the least bit troubled with the fact that Putin and the Russians did interfered with our election system.

I am a strong defender of the free press which I have stated in the main obstacle to this country being taken over by an authoritarian government, fascism. Yes I want to allow free expression but you know what? When I hear these voices that most certainly are dismissing these hacking charges and doing all they can to discredit this investigation, and there are many including Lois, I have the right to go after them hammer and tong and defend this country and its democracy.

So don't tell me that I'm going too far with talking about statements and actions that border on treason. I have that right and I will express it even though this country is now full of Trump supporters, defenders and apologists who are, in fact, helping to take this country down the path to an authoritarian government.

Why don't those like you speak out and do everything to prevent attacks on our democracy from within and from without? Think about yourself and if you are doing all you can for your country during these trying times.

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:14:49 AM

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Nelson Wight

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content
This comment has been flagged
Reason: (Slanderous) this has been a heated debate and that's no problem with me. But when this guy refers to me as a troll then he has gone over the line of civility. Please remove this comment and all his others. Michael Payne

Lois, don't waste your time and allow this spewing continue.
I'm sure you can recognize a troll when you see one.

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 5:32:16 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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I'm done with this discussion Nels. I found some of the things said to be a bit disturbing. It's a trend I've been aware of and I think it needs to be exposed. Nothing more to say.

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 6:10:36 PM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to Lois Gagnon:   New Content

The most disturbing thing of all is to see you and those like you refuse to side with the various agencies that are charged with protecting this country and its institutions from foreign interference. Trump has been trying hard to discredit these agencies, the FBI, the CIA and other intelligence agencies, denigrating them, accusing them of crimes and that is absolutely un-American.

You are disturbed??? Well, I am disturbed by all those who do not put the interests of their country and its people above all else and do all they can to discredit and destroy an investigation into Russian meddling. If Mueller is wrong we will find out, if the FBI and CIA and other intelligence agencies are doing something illegal, we will find out in the end.

This is a great country that has a terrible government, namely the Congress and the presidency that are failing the American people. The only hope we have is for dedicated career personnel in our intelligence agencies to do their jobs in protecting this democracy.

One of these days you will wake up to what is going on and stop listening to conspiracy theorists. .

Submitted on Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:24:24 AM

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BFalcon

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Congratulations, you endured a discussion with Lois.

Her beliefs are as strong as wrong.

Submitted on Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 8:41:34 AM

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Michael Payne

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Reply to BFalcon:   New Content

Thank you for those kind words Bf; yes it's a challenge to be sure but we must persevere. And I just heard in a personal email to me that I'm going to be nominated to become a member of a very small and select Opednews group that has accomplished that same feat.

In all seriousness there is nothing wrong with strong opinions as long as comments remain civil which she does, which is in contrast to a few who enter these discussions and make snide remarks or lend nothing of substance to them; only to disrupt. .

Submitted on Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 3:25:14 PM

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Reply to Nelson Wight:   New Content

Nels, first you allude to Michael's words being sh*t. Then you call him a troll. Actually, your behavior is trollish. If you can't argue intelligently, I guess you resort to name calling. Please be civil in your interactions here.

Submitted on Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 2:21:44 PM

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Maxwell

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  New Content

I'm not saying you don't have the right to say it, that was my whole point. Just that you're wrong! (I have the right too!) Impugning the patriotism of others, thus taking "the last refuge of scoundrels", weakens your argument.

But if you're suggesting the"Russiagate is bunk" argument is being amplified by Russian trolls, I believe you're right about that. Still, proving specific examples is hopeless therefore making specific accusations is pointless.

I think many well meaning people are merely deluded. For example, Daniel's argument seems to be escalating tensions between Russia and the US is dangerous (true enough) and Russian interference is a sorry excuse for HRC's loss (also true) therefore it didn't happen.

(BTW Daniel, no I am not going to watch Debbie's videos).

"...we are going to see a massive eruption in Washington D.C. such as we have never seen in U.S. history. It will stun and shock this country and the entire world and it will truly be a constitutional crisis like no other."

I certainly hope you are wrong about that. In the 1860's there was a little matter of whether individual states had the right to secede from the US, are you including that too?

Some people today, including many of Trump's supporters, believe that issue was by no means resolved. Nothing would arouse the base like an impeachment attempt or a forced resignation. Therefore, I question the wisdom of going that route.

The best outcome, I think, would be a public outing of a solid case for Russian intervention and Trump active cooperation if it in fact exists, followed by a massive, but temporary, Democratic hegemony in Congress. Not because the Democrats deserve it, only to restore a sane balance and separation of powers (unless the GOP wisely decides to cut Trump loose). Sometimes gridlock is good. Down the road there would have to be improved diplomacy with Russia including agreement to stop intervening in each others affairs.

If on the other hand, there's no there there, so conclude, and move on. And hope we as a nation make it through this wretched presidency, the worst one in my lifetime. Like you, I don't believe this conclusion of the investigation is very likely.

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 3:24:30 PM

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Michael Payne

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Maxwell: I hear what you're saying and it's clear you most certainly have the best interests of this country and it people in mind; that's so great to see and I wish we would see more of that kind of attitude across America.

I have been very closely following this entire situation, the investigation, all the naysayers who refuse to accept the fact that Russia did, in fact, interfere with our election process and this is what I have concluded and strongly believe will happen.

Mueller has mountains of evidence and there is no question that Trump's many tweets and statements, which are clearly documented, indicate that he has done everything in his power to obstruct this investigation. He has by his own words made the case that he has obstructed this investigation.

I believe that it won't be long before Trump is given a below the surfacel message that sets down the evidence that Mueller has against him, or his closest advisers, or his son or son in law, that will tell Trump that he is cornered and he has no way to escape a massive expose of what has been done and his directly involvement.

And it may be that some kind of a deal is struck in which Trump will be given a chance to resign and that he will know that he has no other option. And then we will see him, just like Nixon, board the presidential helicopter, smile and wave as he flies off to political oblivion.

That could be the greatest thing that could happen to America at this most dangerous point in U.S. history.

Submitted on Monday, May 7, 2018 at 11:20:58 PM

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Reply to Michael Payne:   New Content

Maybe. But I worry about unrest on the streets. He still has between 30% and 40% of the voting public behind him. They think he is doing good things for the country (like keeping the evil liberals from taking away their guns, for example). They believe they are the patriots, which is why I don't think attacking their patriotism is the way to go. They will never accept the evidence no matter what it is.

Some of the see, hear and speak no evil monkeys here also point out we'd be left with Pence, who they say is more dangerous. I disagree. Pence at least appears to be an adult. Not being alone with a woman not my wife isn't my moral compass, but at least it's a moral compass.

Trump operates by feeding red meat to his supporters, the "base". (And the phrase "drain the swamp" was coined by Mussolini). Today, for example, he is going to tear up a treaty with Iran, which he says is a terrible deal, the worst deal he has ever seen, for no better reason than to undo what his predecessor did. Exactly what is terrible about it he doesn't say. America is being taking advantage of, that's good enough for the base. I think people who don't see the danger in this sort of extreme toxic scorched earth politics are whistling in the dark. The word for it is "demagoguery", and William F. Buckley saw it for what it was decades ago during Trump's first overtures to the White House. I think that is one of the best weapons against "the base": the fact he 's not a real conservative, but only plays one on TV.

Submitted on Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 1:14:31 PM

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Michael Payne

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When thinking about that 30-40% of his supporters here's what is really scary. Trump is a born liar, he is actually a pathological liar. You have probably seen the Washington. Post article re: Fact Checker which now has documented the over 3000 outright lies or deliberate misstatements he has made during his 460 plus days in office.

This breed of Americans hear these continuous lies, his denigrating and demeaning remarks about women, minorities and others and it quite apparently does not bother them in the least. To hell with the principles of ethics and morality he's our agent of change, our agent of divisiveness and destructive policies.

These are dark days for this country and society. Sure we need change to eliminate this massive corruption in Congress, sure we need to remove the Corporatists and their filthy money (bribes) from our election system, stop the endless wars, and use the wealth of America for positive and constructive endeavors instead of negative and destructive ones.

Yes, we need change and a leader who will lead the efforts; but if we were trying to pick the very worst individual to be this leader it would most certainly be Trump; and that's what this 30-40% did and will try to do it again.

Submitted on Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 6:40:54 PM

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