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OpEdNews Op Eds    H2'ed 9/30/20

Open Thread: Biden Trump Debate

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This space is for members to discuss the debate as and after it has happened.

Please add your comments on how they are each doing, specific things they've said, etc.

So it's begun. The POSPOTUS won't let Chris Wallace or Joe Biden speak. Joe is doing pretty well talking over Trump.

Chris Wallace has to repeatedly tell the POS to STFU.

Trump and Biden at first debate
Trump and Biden at first debate
(Image by Rob Kall)
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Rob Kall Social Media Pages: Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in       Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in       Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in       Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Rob Kall is an award winning journalist, inventor, software architect, connector and visionary. His work and his writing have been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, the HuffingtonPost, Success, Discover and other media. 

Check out his platform at RobKall.com

He is the author of The Bottom-up Revolution; Mastering the Emerging World of Connectivity  

He's given talks and workshops to Fortune 500 execs and national medical and psychological organizations, and pioneered first-of-their-kind conferences in Positive Psychology, Brain Science and Story. He hosts some of the world's smartest, most interesting and powerful people on his Bottom Up Radio Show, and founded and publishes one of the top Google- ranked progressive news and opinion sites, OpEdNews.com

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Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind.  Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives  one person at a time was too slow, he founded Opednews.com-- which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big)  to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization (more...)
 

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41 people are discussing this page, with 119 comments


John Zwiebel

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Trump is winning. Easily. Biden should just shut up.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:00:48 AM

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Steve Schneider

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Reply to John Zwiebel:   New Content

Trump threw in the towel last night, and gave up on our democracy.

He did this by pissing off all kinds of elderly voters and white, female suburban Republican voters.

Sadly, Trump seems intent on cementing the Democratic Party as a "moderate" Republican Party of my youth.

This will upset John, who is already disaffected with mainstream Democrats.

Even so, I hope he will pass around a collection plate. Let's buy Trump a Hobie Uncle Buck surf board. Maybe our "animal spirits" president will paddle all the way to Russia.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:46:17 PM

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Lance Ciepiela

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Reply to John Zwiebel:   New Content

The coronavirus pandemic allowed both candidates to avoid an awkward, and probably unwelcome, handshake that would have happened moments before the shouting started..

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:54:17 PM

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Biden's K-shaped recovery, he is more than happy to to continue with that shape. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Not voting' for the rapist.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:06:30 AM

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Michael Dewey

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"When shall it be said in any country of the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive...when these things can be said, then may that country boast of its constitution and government."~ Thomas Paine"
       -- Tom Paine

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I agreed with what a CNN commentator said after, "Biden came off as a decent guy", which figure with the way Trump acted that wasn't hard to do.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:04:23 AM

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Reply to Michael Dewey:   New Content

And nothing shouts "decent guy" like raping your intern.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:11:38 PM

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Susan Lee Schwartz

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It was a sh*t show, and that lunatic never shut up, and the moderator could not control him. Biden was as fluid as possible with the bombardment of noise. He looked into the camera and talked to the people!

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:07:57 AM

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Carol Jackson

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This debate sucked. The candidates did not inspire. Most people have come to fear Trump. Fear will rule this election. People don't like fear and uncertainty and Trump personifies both.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:11:48 AM

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Reply to Carol Jackson:   New Content

Sad, eh? and we, in the U.S., are blessed with a superfluous quantity of fearmongers.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:25:09 PM

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The (add your own explative) moderator had the temerity to attempt to make the participants of the debate promise something regarding the elections. That was not his place. It was as if someone were to ask out of the blue, "Will you promise not to beat your wife...." etc. How bizarre. I think Trump handled it well by saying that he told his supporters to watch what is happening at the polls. Trump seemed to be predicting widespread voter fraud, to a large extent as a result of mail-in votes, which, he observed, may delay a final count, and thus, an announcement of the winner, as much as months.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:20:46 AM

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Well, election fraud (not voter fraud) has been growing more and more obvious since 2000. Everyone ignores it no matter how often Brad Friedman and Greg Palast warn about it and provide evidence to back up their claims.

I don't disagree that Wallace should have left the question alone, but then the MSM is waging a psychiatric war against voters and Wallace is definitely a tool of the MSM and the Oligarchy.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:01:54 PM

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I thought Trump blew it and Biden did a good job (given the circumstances). I thought perhaps Trump was trying to needle Joe to the point he would fall apart in some way, but that never happened and Trump just looked boorish. It reminded me of a comedian playing the part of a mafia heavy.

Too bad, because I thought Trump brought up some good points, but he was unwilling or unable to present them clearly -- just went for one liners and needling. Biden, against many expectations, showed no signs of mental disability and spoke well.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:32:51 AM

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Reply to Fred W:   New Content

This is the most honest and level-headed assessment of the debate I've seen... anywhere. I supposed the msm is too sensitive about everyone knowing they were rooting for Biden to just come out and say this.....

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:19:15 AM

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Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

The debate was an affront to decency, thanks to Trump's churlish, infantile behaviour. It was the 'Greek tragedy' of presidential debates. The only redeeming feature, was that Biden looked like a dignified Statesman. If the tenor of the debate was not scary enough, the fact that Trump told his white supremacist supporters, to be at the ready, should send shockwaves through the atmosphere. How well-heeled people, can support a man who is criminally insane, is beyond me. What good is all the money in the world, if everything goes up in flames???

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 11:28:31 PM

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Al Hirschfield

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Reply to Irene Fowler:   New Content

Beautifully and brilliantly stated as always, Irene. We just have to get you a Podcast in the US....

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 12:33:30 AM

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Reply to Irene Fowler:   New Content

Irene, Yes....

Reminds me of:

Collapse of Complex Societies (New Studies in Archaeology)

by Joseph A. Tainter

Political disintegration is a persistent feature of world history. The Collapse of Complex Societies, though written by an archaeologist, will therefore strike a chord throughout the social sciences. Any explanation of societal collapse carries lessons not just for the study of ancient societies, but for the members of all such societies in both the present and future. Dr. Tainter describes nearly two dozen cases of collapse and reviews more than 2000 years of explanations. He then develops a new and far-reaching theory that accounts for collapse among diverse kinds of societies, evaluating his model and clarifying the processes of disintegration by detailed studies of the Roman, Mayan and Chacoan collapses.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 12:53:41 AM

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Kyle Gordy

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Key question: given the performance of both nominees, do you think the debate changed anyone's mind? I doubt it. They both acted as anticipated.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:38:39 AM

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Peter Franzen

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The so-called debate was badly mismanaged by Chris Wallace who allowed Trump to constantly interrupt and talk over Biden. Wallace did not challenge Trump over his claims that he paid $millions in Federal taxes in 2016 and 2017 contrary to media reports that he paid only $750 in each year. Neither did Wallace insist on a reply from Trump on whether he would condemn violence by white supremacists. There were many more failures by Wallace to insist on answers from both Trump and Biden. All in all it was a dismal slanging match that would discourage any reasonable person from voting for either of the candidates. Perhaps it would have been more productive (and entertaining) if Wallace had armed Trump and Biden with handbags and let them slog it out at dawn.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:44:31 AM

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Meryl Ann Butler

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Reply to Peter Franzen:   New Content

I'm just wondering how Chris Wallace could have done better, considering his only tools to deal with a maniac were to try to insist on cordial behavior. He needed a way to mute the mike.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:56:41 PM

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Rob Kall

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Reply to Meryl Ann Butler:   New Content

The rule should have been every time Trump interrupted Biden's clock would restart.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:27:54 PM

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Peter Franzen

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Reply to Meryl Ann Butler:   New Content

You have answered your own question. Wallace should have switched off Trumps microphone every time he interrupted Biden.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:42:43 PM

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Meryl Ann Butler

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Reply to Peter Franzen:   New Content

Yes! Does he have that capability and authority, and didn't use it? Idk...

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:32:54 PM

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David William Pear

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Biden won by not saying something too incoherent--- like the victrola or cornpop stories.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:00:28 AM

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Reply to David William Pear:   New Content

Yeah, but I think Biden did more than just not put his foot in it -- he stated his positions coherently, stayed on topic pretty much, and did all the things one is supposed to do. That's not to say at all that I agree with his positions, but he did as good a job as anyone would want him to do with the cards he's holding. Trump, on the other hand, was vindictive and offensive, didn't do a very good job with his time in supporting his positions, and was obviously much more to blame for the generally chaotic event. I really don't think Trump behaved at all well tonight.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:39:17 AM

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Reply to Fred W:   New Content

You've done it again:

This is the most honest and level-headed assessment of the debate I've seen... anywhere. I supposed the msm is too sensitive about everyone knowing they were rooting for Biden to just come out and say this.....

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:22:00 AM

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Reply to Fred W:   New Content

I don't see how Trump could be "largely" to blame -- he was "TOTALLY" to blame for the chaos. And Wallace was too timid to stop him.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:31:33 PM

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Reply to Tom Calarco:   New Content

I wonder if Chris Wallace had control of the mike. If he did, I'm disappointed.

I don't think Rachel Maddow would have any reservations about muting!

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:34:29 PM

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Maxwell

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Reply to Meryl Ann Butler:   New Content

If things are more or less the same as when I worked in TV--and I have no reason to believe they aren't--the mics are controlled by the audio operator, at the behest of the director. With a signal from the moderator, it would take about 1/4 second to slide a pot closed. So it's really just a question of whether it would be good policy to do that. From what I've read and heard--I didn't watch the debate, couldn't watch it--unless you're chugging the Kool Aid--and those who are won't change their minds anyway--Trump did himself real damage among still persuadable voters. Why not give him all the rope he needs to hang himself?

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:17:31 PM

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You're right Rob. Trump rallied his base. And Joe held on to his. It will be interesting to see if either pulled anybody new to their side. What became clear was that it might well come down to three votes. The three SCOTUS justices appointed by Trump. Are there strategies being set (by either or both sides) determining how SCOTUS would be forced to decide?

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:02:21 AM

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molly cruz

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Yes, well I pegged Trump long ago as being on the autism spectrum. Long ago I met a child and got to study him and others, and what hit me is that they were sleep walking; and it turns out they hardly actually sleep at all. Everything is a dream to them. The truest thing Biden said when the moderator said "Let him finish." was "He can't do that". That's right. Our President hasn't got all his marbles. Naturally, nothing much makes sense. So a debate between a man who would like to make sense and Trump is like a match between a Fighting Cocque and a Pitbull.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:03:47 AM

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Bob Stuart

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Reply to molly cruz:   New Content

I have never seen abnormally low sleep times associated with Asperger's before. It is a very wide spectrum, but the neatest way to distinguish Asperger's from Psychopathy I've heard is that Aspies have sympathy but no empathy, while Psychos have empathy but no sympathy. Trump can get into your head but does not care about you. Aspies wish you well, but can't connect with you.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:18:12 AM

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Reply to molly cruz:   New Content

It's interesting that when Trump is speaking to an adoring crowd he is animated, but when delivering a statement as POTUS (probably with a teleprompter) his eyes are half closed and his voice is a monotone, like a Manchurian Candidate.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:21:01 PM

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Allan Wayne

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Only once did I think Biden might die on stage, so he surpassed all expectations.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:07:51 AM

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Helen Carpenter

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Reply to Allan Wayne:   New Content

Laughing.....good one!

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:06:32 AM

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Al Hirschfield

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I think I won the debate because I turned it on at about 9:30 PM and turned it off at about 9:30 and 45 seconds.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:36:35 AM

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John Lawrence Ré

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Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

Brilliant!! Did the same.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 6:25:44 AM

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Helen Carpenter

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Reply to John Lawrence Ré:   New Content

Reading through the comments has convinced me not to bother....not bothering to vote for any of the the four psychopaths, either..

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:08:51 AM

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John Zwiebel

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Reply to John Lawrence Ré:   New Content

I still have it queued on my browser and keep struggling through it just to see if there's something interesting. Mostly though you've made the right choice.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:08:27 PM

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Meryl Ann Butler

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Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

LOL! Well, I think I won the debate because I spent my time making art and never tuned into the debate to begin with ;-)

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:59:14 PM

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Al Hirschfield

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Reply to Meryl Ann Butler:   New Content

"Art" over Trump at his worst??? I just don't get it...

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:07:03 PM

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Mohammad Ala

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I watched the entire debate, then watched the people who expressed their views. Almost two hours.

I believe the entire world was watching the debate because it was important.

People, or many have made up their minds. It was interesting to find out almost 70% said it was annoying debate (CBS reported 30 minutes after the debate).

CBS mentioned 48% favored Biden to 41% of Trump.

In my view, the moderator did not do a good job.

Mr. Trump will cause turmoil and anxiety even several weeks after the election.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:08:55 AM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to Mohammad Ala:   New Content

Dr. Mohammad, I didn't watch the 'debate', because I don't recognize it as anything more

than theatre. Of course, I must admit that, worldwide, it affects people's minds & decisions.

I don't disagree with you, since at our ages we must have somehow accumulated some wisdom. I often wish we were closer neighbors. PEACE, my Friend!

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:42:56 PM

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molly cruz

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Reply to Nels Wight:   New Content

The original theatre, religion, the spectacle, well you couldn't argue with it. This is interactive, impulsive theatre, a step up in a way. I think the Right is arguing constantly for the kind of interaction that is essentially North Korean in style, unquestioning and slavishly obedient, a march; while on the left we have Jazz, impulsive, articulate, unpredictable. It wasn't no more than theatre. It was American theatre, quite painful I thought; while every simple melodic theme Biden introduced was met with the cacophony of a tamborine, loud and pointless, to drown out any possible pursuit of truth, or harmony.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:25:05 PM

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Meryl Ann Butler

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Reply to Mohammad Ala:   New Content

Yep, causing anxiety and turmoil is Trump's modus operandi, it is how he creates his smoke screen.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:36:04 PM

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Kate Jones

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It would have been entertaining and funny if the fate of the world didn't somehow hang from the psyches of these two blemished human beings. I'll be voting for Jo Jorgensen. She should have been allowed to participate. Libertarian, in case you don't know.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:49:45 AM

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JenniferWNY

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Donald Trump acted just like I expected and just like what he is, a bully with, at best, mediocre intelligence!! And like most people with mediocre intelligence, tRUMP tried to control the entire debate by using a very loud voice that almost completely drowned out Joe Biden. He reminded me of a grifter or con-man like PT Barnum.

For the next debate, the moderator MUST have the power, AND THE GUTS, to turn off Donald Trumps microphone every time he speaks during Joe Biden's time period!!!

One other observation. Did anyone else notice that Donald Trump had a larger share, more that 50% of the screen during the entire debate.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:43:45 AM

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Al Hirschfield

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I think next time the only microphone that should be turned on is the one the person's whose turn to speak is actually speaking.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:49:46 AM

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Al Hirschfield

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Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

And no one should tell Trump until it's over...

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:13:21 AM

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molly cruz

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Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

Originally I imagined a loud horn would sound whenever Trump belted out a lie; but on second thought, a news crawl simultaneously with the lie might be good. Trouble there is that Trump's people can't read, or they'd have dumped him long ago. The saddest thing is interviews of Trump supporters outside one of his rallies. Half a brain is almost an overstatement.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:32:01 PM

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Maxwell

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Reply to molly cruz:   New Content

I imagine with the digital video effects they have now, they could just paste a Pinocchio nose on Trump and make it grow every time he tells a lie.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:00:51 PM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to Al Hirschfield:   New Content

Right on the money, Al. I think the moderator has responsibility to shut down the candidate, the microphone or even momentarily stop the debate if one of the candidates is rule breaking or interrupting, etc. I wonder about the choice of moderators that remain weak in this regard.

If a moderator continues to allow Trump to create chaos, I also wonder if Biden should use a few of Trump's tricks, such as interrupting him...saying "since you feel free to disrespectfully interrupt me," let's see how you like it...and then loudly do the same. Energetically, Biden needs to meet Trump's energy. An Aikido-like approach in which you very directly use the attacker's own energy to defeat him (without overt aggression) makes sense to me.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 6:21:20 PM

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Al Hirschfield

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:   New Content

Trump was absolutely unhinged, he was so desperate (Mr. "Winner" remember, is now losing in front of the whole world), and I would imagine that Biden's number one rule going in was, "Never cower." All Trump had to do was make him look weak compared to himself, and it would have been all over.

I think Biden just did what he could under the absurd circumstances.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:14:05 PM

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Bob Stuart

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The moderator should have control of the microphones.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:54:54 AM

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Meryl Ann Butler

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Reply to Bob Stuart:   New Content

I agree totally, and if they are smart, that will be instituted by the next debate. If not, it sounds like many people will not watch. But if they do give mike control to the moderator, everyone will tune in to see how that goes!

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:01:56 PM

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Meryl Ann Butler

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The mike should have a timer: the moderator asks the question, then hits the button to open the mike...when the timer ends, the mike goes off.

That puts the responsibility on the speaker to say what they need to say in the amount of time given.

Sheesh. I've been a speaker and presenter for over 30 years, when I am given a certain amount of time to stick to, I just make sure my whole message fits into the time I've been given...it's not rocket science.

btw, I won the debate! I never turned it on, and spent my time relaxed and happy, making art. ;-)

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:06:52 PM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to Meryl Ann Butler:   New Content

MerylAnn, we won. I love your account of 'the debate?'

I agree with many - NONE OF THE ABOVE, balloting..

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:47:27 PM

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Ken Swiatek

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My opinion of Donald Trumpf:

Psycho Killer

Talking Heads

I can't seem to face up to the facts
I'm tense and nervous and I can't relax
I can't sleep 'cause my bed's on fire
Don't touch me I'm a real live wire

Psycho Killer
Qu'est-ce que c'est
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away oh oh
Psycho Killer
Qu'est-ce que c'est
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away oh oh oh oh
Yeah yeah yeah yeah!

You start a conversation you can't even finish it
You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything
When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed
Say something once, why say it again?

Psycho Killer
Qu'est-ce que c'est
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away oh oh oh
Psycho Killer

Qu'est-ce que c'est"

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:15:54 PM

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Mark Sashine

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The chickens came home to roost: Joe sees now what kind of a monster he and his political cronies cooked out in their cauldron.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:17:58 PM

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Tom Calarco

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This display of uncontrolled arrogance is unbelievable even by Trump standards. How can anyone support such conduct unless it's some ignorant yahoo who wants to get his gun and "hunt niggers" -- pardon the expression but using it to emphasize the type of person who would admire such a display. Only the most ignorant in our society will accept this, yet his base is so brain dead that they may continue to vote for him. It's apparent his followers have become a cult and you know what cult followers will do for their leader. Just think Charles Manson.

Trump demeans his office, the nation, and the American people. Hopefully, this will prevent any possibility of re-election. However, it also is an indication of how far he might go to resist stepping down once he is voted out.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:24:38 PM

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JenniferWNY

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Reply to Tom Calarco:   New Content

Typical Trump Supporter

Typical Trump Supporter
Typical Trump Supporter
(Image by Occupy Democrats)
Details DMCA

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:13:45 PM

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William P. Homans

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Reply to Tom Calarco:   New Content

Hi, Tom,

I at first thought I would take advantage of my being allowed, at 65 or older, to vote by mail. However, I've decided that I am going to go ahead and vote in person (be there when the polls open), and after I finish, hang around to be sure that no voter is being intimidated.

I don't think it will happen here in Mississippi, no matter for our history; there's no question of Biden winning Mississippi. But we do have an important election we can win: Mike Espy for Senate, versus Cindy Hyde-Smith, an outright racist who said she'd go to a public hanging if someone invited her.

Trump demeans us all. Thing is, he knows his goose is cooked-- I really think that on some level he knows it, whether he will acknowledge it to himself, or to anyone-- and that the rest of his life after his Presidency is going to be spent in New York trying to stay out of prison.

I have one good wish for the Trump family: that Barron will transcend the shame his father brings upon his country and his family (almost all of which are in it with him to the hilt), and get to be a pro basketball player, since he's as tall as his father and by appearances barely in puberty. Or whatever he wants to be, as long as he does not wish to emulate his father.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 12:58:59 AM

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john taylor

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No more old farts In politics, these f*cking selfish geezers are ruining our pretty much none existant futures. Just wasting our time, and getting filthy stinking Rich. Soulless a**holes.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:20:52 PM

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shad williams

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Think we could ever pass a law where no one under 35 could be associated with the military or the MIC?

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:33:33 PM

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Maxwell

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Reply to shad williams:   New Content

Except for enlisted men that's pretty much true.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:57:05 PM

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shad williams

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Reply to Maxwell:   New Content

The main intent is for inlisted,

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:27:45 PM

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shad williams

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Reply to shad williams:   New Content

Put the old farts on the battlefield - no use of robots...sorry, I am just day dreaming.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:29:11 PM

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Maxwell

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Reply to shad williams:   New Content

Would have been amusing if the army we had--as opposed to the army we wished we had--included Rumsfeld.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:25:31 PM

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Tom James

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Reply to shad williams:   New Content

Agreed, Shad. Minimum age for military service should be 65 years of age. Fill in your own comedic scenarios from that point.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:50:23 PM

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shad williams

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Reply to Tom James:   New Content

We could have a "fit" and hand over the Joint Chiefs control of operations to an AI "presence" with dementia.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:11:52 PM

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Tom James

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Reply to shad williams:   New Content

Apologies. I didn't see this when I posted below.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:51:48 PM

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shad williams

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None necessary@Tom.James.com

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:01:00 PM

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K.H. Williams

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The display that occurred at the tragic presidential debate last night demonstrated precisely where a 200-year-old addiction to a white male patriarchal system "leads" us. The reactiveness and disrespect, anger, bullying, arrogance, personal interest, victimhood, blame, need for control-- were all symptoms of long term systemic addiction that keeps doing the same old thing over and over again while expecting different results. This is the definition of insanity--and status quo, too. The two party system has become unbalanced from white male patriarchy and deadlocked by endless status quo in which one party hides from responsibility and blames the other, while neither party steps up with real courage, sincerity, ethics, and integrity in the full spirit of working for the greater good as "public servants".

"Where there is no vision, the people perish"....In these very difficult, demanding times, we best rise up, snap out of it, pay attention, keep the focus on ourselves instead of them, take responsibility, register to vote and vote like crazy since we've been addicted to the white male patriarchal system and its way of doing things, too. This addiction resembles the insanity of other addictions and we're lucky if we only wind up in the hospital instead of dead. It's high time to stop deluding ourselves, to think independently instead of allowing others to do the thinking, take responsibility for our choices and their consequences. We don't get away with anything. Choice has consequences. For those who haven't registered to vote, or voted in a long time, please consider: If we don't use it, we lose it. If you want a happy future for your kids, if you want civil society, the relief of suffering, social justice--be sure to register, and exercise your right to vote. If you think you don't mind all that, travel to countries where the people are oppressed and suffering terribly, see how you like it. One of several books on the white-male-patriarchal addiction is short, readable, and, mercifully, defines clear solutions, too. It was written 40 years ago by Dr. Anne Wilson Schaef, titled, "When Society Becomes An Addict."

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:39:07 PM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to K.H. Williams:   New Content

K.H.,

I agree with everything you said so well.

All I might add is that we would do well to be aware of the potential of "back-doors"" on voting machines, as well as the role of the "deep state" (whatever it is), such as the security services and things like the Trilateral Commission and its brethren.

From what I can tell the presidential race is more like a skirmish in a long war against humanity. Yet, it's a skirmish we must win.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:12:20 AM

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Meryl Ann Butler

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Do we have a breakdown of minutes yet? How many minutes Trump spoke vs how many minutes Biden spoke?

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:44:19 PM

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K V Ramani

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The unpredictability of the debate is matched by the predictability of reactions here.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54:54 PM

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Art Costa

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I for one am terribly disappointed in the comments. Pure MSM/CIA talking points.

The dissidents have been brought to heel. The MIC loves it.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:52:44 PM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to Art Costa:   New Content

This fiasco is a planned outcome of the outrageous genocidal scam triggered in broad daylight late last year. It is clear this election is rigged in every conceivable way. At the expense of the entire world's economy and three decades of global sociocultural integration. There's nothing to gloat over here. Whoever wins will preside over a fallen empire which came apart at the center.

Given this final scenario, either way, I would like to see Trump beat the odds one more time. Just for the heck of it. Never liked ganging up.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:03:35 AM

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Robert Gormley

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

Not so clear to the average person, you must be a genius.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:54:17 AM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to Robert Gormley:   New Content

Not at all. Just being my usual contrarian self, Robert! Am fully aware of the bullseye I painted on myself :-)

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 2:18:44 AM

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John Zwiebel

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

I agree with you, but don't want either Biden or Trump to win.

I'm much more ambivalent. Neither man will promote policies I care about and both will continue to allow the Empire to commit crimes against humanity.

The Nazis seem to have failed only in that they used gas chambers rather than drones and Hellfire missiles or a Pandemic released on the entire world or fomenting revolution and/or coups or the withholding of Humanitarian Aid or support of a Religious Extremist nation to cleanse the Earth of "undesirables".

Anyone who can look at the lack of due process afforded to the prisoners at Guantanamo or who can believe that the trial of Assange is just and still believe that it matters which puppet of the Oligarchy wins has no moral compass and no soul. These atrocities are not exceptions.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 2:57:46 AM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to John Zwiebel:   New Content

Couldn't agree with you more. Americans are losing sight of the big picture in this 4-yearly carnival of hysteria. Caught, yet again, in picking, yet again, the supposed lesser evil. That the evil has only gotten darker with each pick seems of no concern. Which, really, is the dilemma for the world.

I have been accused of deriving voyeuristic pleasure at this from afar. I beg to differ. The hysteria is scaling new heights this time because American necks are on the block for the first time since the civil war. My neck, along with those of nearly 7.5 billion others (current world population 7.8 billion), has been on the block for decades. Indeed, the guillotine blade is thrumming louder than ever now under the 'timely' pandemic. It's like expecting the world to support the American 'cause' of choosing between WWIII starting with China or Russia.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:34:05 AM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

Hi, Friend - a superlative answer to John.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 2:48:11 PM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to John Zwiebel:   New Content

John, I read you loud & clear.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 2:45:29 PM

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

As we may have mentioned before,I realize I wouldn't like a target painted on my back.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:26:22 PM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to Nels Wight:   New Content

Not in the present times for sure, especially those living in the US, Nels.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 5:15:00 PM

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Reply to Robert Gormley:   New Content

Robert, if you're a normal person, you might not be a genius. Wear shoe, if it fits.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 2:42:37 PM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

K.V.:

I believe that "holding actions", like Joe Biden are very valuable in that they can provide time for resistance and awareness to grow. A psychopath vs. a go-along-and-get-along wall street guy isn't a great choice (an understatement), but the psychopath will forge a direct and immediate route to hell.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 2:08:03 AM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:   New Content

Labels like psychopath, sociopath, etc., are emotional reactions. I suppose people can use them in a democracy but not to the extent of believing they reflect clinical evaluations. Those who came before him and committed horrendous genocidal crimes were not exactly sane, rational people. Anymore than those who unleashed this virus on the world.

Still and all, hope lies eternal in the human breast. You are entitled to yours, Blair :-)

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 2:40:03 AM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

K.V.:

You wrote:

"Labels like psychopath, sociopath, etc., are emotional reactions. I suppose people can use them in a democracy but not to the extent of believing they reflect clinical evaluations."

Not true...If interested see:

The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 37 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President - Updated and Expanded with New Essays by Bandy X. Lee M.D. and Robert Jay Lifton, M.D

Bandy Lee is also having lively conversations on Twitter.

As this bestseller predicted, Trump has only grown more erratic and dangerous as the pressures on him mount. This new edition includes new essays bringing the book up to date"because this is still not normal.

Originally released in fall 2017, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump was a runaway bestseller. Alarmed Americans and international onlookers wanted to know: What is wrong with him?That question still plagues us. The Trump administration has proven as chaotic and destructive as its opponents feared, and the man at the center of it all remains a cipher.Constrained by the APA's "Goldwater rule," which inhibits mental health professionals from diagnosing public figures they have not personally examined, many of those qualified to weigh in on the issue have shied away from discussing it at all. The public has thus been left to wonder whether he is mad, bad, or both.

The prestigious mental health experts who have contributed to the revised and updated version of The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump argue that their moral and civic "duty to warn" supersedes professional neutrality. Whatever affects him, affects the nation: From the trauma people have experienced under the Trump administration to the cult-like characteristics of his followers, he has created unprecedented mental health consequences across our nation and beyond. With eight new essays (about one hundred pages of new material), this edition will cover the dangerous ramifications of Trump's unnatural state.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:38:21 AM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:   New Content

It's precisely the Goldwater Rule that I had in mind. She and her co-authors may have gone ahead and violated their own professional code of ethics because they felt secure in the prevailing climate of anything goes if it is Trump. Indeed, the seeds of the coup planted from day one of his term would have driven even a person more sober than him into similar behavior. It is to the discredit of such professionals that they are quick to jump on the effect to make their solemn pronouncements on a 'patient' not one of them personally examined, while overlooking the cause. It's like focusing only on the reaction of an insect jabbed ceaselessly with a pin and pretending the pin plays no role.

Codes of conduct are there in any profession for a sound reason: to protect the objects of the profession from unethical conduct. No medical professional should be allowed to perform a remote involuntary diagnosis. I had a lengthy exchange with a psychologist a couple of years ago on this subject, right here on OEN. He couldn't answer my question as a professional. How could he when he knew full well he was in violation of his own code of conduct?

Lee and her co-authors are entitled to their political views, like any other citizen voter. They are not entitled to abuse their professional ethics to bolster such views. That way lies the path to danger for all. In today's rising surveillance society, anyone can be declared mentally incompetent, a nut case or a danger to society for any concocted reason and put into a straitjacket by the state. It could be you or me. Be careful what you are implicitly supporting.

Similar 'prestigious' experts sold us the torture of Afghans and Iraqis, and the hellhole of Guantanamo where a number of them personally planned and participated in inhumane acts on fellow humans. Prestigious experts have also been selling us the bailouts and money printing mania by dismissing all economic lessons of history. A lot of them are right now actively involved in spreading hysterical fear of the virus which, I personally believe, some of them helped engineer at a lab. The words professionalism and prestige have no sanctity anymore. It's all about wealth, status and politics.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 5:12:36 AM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

"Duty to warn" is legally binding language for many professionals including nurses, psychologists and other human service professionals. The terms psychopath/sociopath are my own, and arise from the fact that Trump fits the bill to a T, and as such, is exceedingly predictable. To blame others for his malignant narcissism appears to me to be way off the mark - and naive to boot.

The authors of the book have explicitly and publicly discussed the comparison with what they are doing and the concerns you raise.

If you had a chance to stop Adolph H. before he accomplished the worst of his atrocities, would you stand on ceremony and not do whatever you could to do so? In my opinion Trump presents a clear and present danger - unprecedented in the U.S.

The professionals who contributed to this book have struggled mightily and publicly with the issue of the "Goldwater Rule" and, as far as I can see, have been exceedingly careful not to diagnose Trump. As far as I know, we have never faced a situation with someone as sick as Trump at the top of the power hierarchy. Plain and simple, this is a very destructive man who happens to have his finger on the nuclear trigger, as well as many other levers of power.

As one commenter said:

He wants to engineer and oversee a blood bath, at home and/or abroad (Iran): No doubt, his preference would be that both scenarios happen contemporaneously, to ensure his perpetuation in power and escape from accountability.

If this is not obvious to you, so be it.

The one thing we learn from history is that we seem to have not learned enough from history.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 4:44:56 PM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:   New Content

Hitler comparisons are a tired old ploy. It takes an extreme stretch of imagination or personal animosity to equate Trump with Hitler. Every American president has had his finger on the nuclear button. Only one pressed it so far.

The man who should be blamed for bringing the world to the edge of a nuclear war in the present times is Obama who pushed matters to the brink with Russia in the final stages of his term. And Democrats, in cahoots with the MIC, who did everything to thwart Trump's efforts to cool things down with Russia. Even today's brinkmanship with China on the South China Sea originated in Obama's Asia Pivot.

People may forget history as a matter of convenience but history is unforgiving. We are not talking of medieval or ancient history here. We are talking of widely available public records and news reports over just the last 5-6 years.

Duty to warn applies to a doctor-patient relationship. It's cynical to invoke it as some noble imperative to defame anyone whom one dislikes without having a medical relationship with that person. Overarching all medical codes of ethics is the Hippocratic oath, Primum, non nocere. First, do no harm.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 5:50:02 PM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

"Duty to warn applies to a doctor-patient relationship."

Actually, it does not; it much broader than that, Feel free to check your sources.

As the world changes, and our authoritarian culture breeds more and more sociopaths, we need to change with it. I don't know how it could be done, but I would say that there should be a psychiatric exam required for every candidate who seeks the presidency...and perhaps one for the examiner as well! (Trump's MD appeared to be in his pocket). If you don't see the ways Trump is like Hitler, that of course, is your prerogative (and I believe, a blind spot).

More and more intelligent people are openly using the term "fascism" to describe his actions. They have learned from history. Old or not, the comparison to Hitler can be a partisan thing, but my sense is that often it is not. I see that the comparison to (an early) Hitler may be both perceptive and prescient.

If you want to point the accountability finger in any direction, the MIC is good candidate.

I have said before that Trump may be a distraction or sleight-of-hand artist who is in place to grab headlines and water cooler discussions while world hegemony proceeds and crimes related to 9/11 and the ET's remain in the shadows.

The CIA et. al. makes extensive use of psychological profiles of other leaders as a way of predicting behavior and "protecting" the U.S. The psychiatrists who wrote the book - using "widely available public records and news reports" appear to have a similar goal.

Last, before you criticize Lee and Co., I'd invite you to check out her Twitter feed (and/or the book) where all the issues you raise are discussed openly, with a full grasp of the implications vis-a-vis the "Goldwater rule" and related matters.

You have hard-won and years-long, keen perspective in general, but my sense is that you are way off on this one.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:48:03 PM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:   New Content

I admire your spirited defense of the offense! There's an old saying in Tamil, my mother tongue: "One needs to sample only one grain of rice to know whether the whole simmering cauldron of rice has been cooked or not." Make what you will of it. Cheers, Blair :-)

Submitted on Friday, Oct 2, 2020 at 12:08:17 AM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

Bless you, my friend.

I "just call 'em as I see em"

What I see is that Donald Trump is a psychopath and that his actions have brought, and will bring, a brutal form of fascism to the U.S. (and other countries) forthwith.

The one positive element is that he has removed the mask from the fascism that already exists, via the MIC. Biden would attempt to place the mask back on, but I believe - as they say - the horses are already out of the barn.

Like the child he was (who Mary Trump has described in detail) he needs the very firm limits he never received, plus any compassion we can muster.

BTW, I have much affinity with India.

Submitted on Friday, Oct 2, 2020 at 2:12:17 AM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

From Huffpost:

Donald Trump's niece, Mary Trump, [who is a clinical psychologist] said the president was sending a chilling message to white supremacist groups when he told them to "stand back and stand by" during Tuesday night's debate.

"It wasn't a shoutout," she said on "The Dean Obeidallah Show" on Wednesday. "It was an order " and we need to see it in those terms and we should be terrified by that."

Indeed, the groups took it as such, responding online with "Standing down and standing by sir" and turning the phrase into a slogan for T-shirts and bumper stickers.

Mary Trump said the president doesn't care that these groups are violent or that their members are racists.

"He only cares that they support him," she said. "And that's the only criteria that matters."

Mary Trump, a clinical psychologist who published a tell-all book dishing on the president this summer, also named two other reasons he won't denounce these groups.

"First of all, he's a white supremacist. So he would have to denounce himself, which will never happen," she said. "Secondly, denouncing white supremacy doesn't get him anywhere with his base, and that's the only people he's talking to anymore."

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 7:11:49 PM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:   New Content

Sorry, Blair, I also feel these critcizing professional(?) people far overstep their bounds.

I'm amazed to hear you appearing too eager to accept their pronouncements. It seems

a bit like the world's quick acceptance of Gates/Fauci hogwash corona/covid tale/game.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:02:45 PM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to Nels Wight:   New Content

Nels,

"Duty to warn" is legally binding language for many professionals including nurses, psychologists and other human service professionals. The terms psychopath/sociopath are my own, and arise from the fact that Trump obviously fits the bill, and as such, is exceedingly predictable.

As I've already said:

As far as I know, we have never faced a situation with someone as sick as Trump at the top of the power hierarchy. Plain and simple, this is a very dangerous, destructive man who happens to have his finger on the nuclear trigger, as well as many other levers of power.

And, as one commenter said:

He wants to engineer and oversee a blood bath, at home and/or abroad (Iran): No doubt, his preference would be that both scenarios happen contemporaneously, to ensure his perpetuation in power and escape from accountability.

The authors have been exceedingly open and public re- their rationale and approach in writing the book, as well as explicitly struggling with the potential for abuse in this situation.

They've gone out of their way to clarify that, in Trump's case they feel that their duty to warn "trumps" the possibilities in such situations for abuse. (see my reply to K.V. above; and, if you feel so moved, see Bandy Lee's twitter feed, where she discusses these matters).

I would would also caution you about whatever issues you refer to as "hogwash." In my experience, when I hear someone using the term, it has usually meant that they've already made up their mind and haven't bothered to investigate a subject thoroughly. Today's "hogwash" can be tomorrow's crime. Ethics are certainly at a low point these days. I don't know much about Gates or Fauci; however, there is plenty of material worth considering at globalresearch.ca.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 5:13:58 PM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

That said, I see the presidential race as a skirmish (although an important one) in a much larger war against humanity. Covid is not the only weapon being used to accomplish a genocidal de-population strategy.

The natives (elites) appear to be getting very restless.

9/11 was, I believe - again - only an initial foray. For more, if you wish, see globalresearch.ca. And for all their comprehensive coverage - even they shy away from other "hard to belief/accept" scenarios.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:46:53 AM

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Art Costa

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Reply to K V Ramani:   New Content

We have been under a junta government since 11/22/1963.

The POTUS is a temporary empire manager.

A process of removal of the current POTUS has been underway since 2017 inauguration.

He's simply unreliable and way too challenging to keep under control.

Trump seems to be thoroughly aware of the plans. His defensive instincts were on display at this spectacle called a debate.

His political opposition is weak, but the power structure doesn't quit.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:07:46 AM

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Peter Duveen

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Reply to Art Costa:   New Content

Art, another speculative possibility is that Trump will be re-elected, and the junta will just keep him so off-balance that they will get whatever they want. This would preserve the two term/alternate party presidency that has been in effect at least since the Clinton administration.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 7:54:36 PM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to Peter Duveen:   New Content

I hate to swallow it, Peter, but I feel that you are, more than likely, absolutely on mark.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 10:07:11 PM

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Maxwell

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I can never watch these things, and rely just on the postmortem punditry. Judging from that, I'm especially glad I passed this one up.

One description I heard this morning: "Chris Wallace let the dumpster fire rage for an hour, then tried to put it out with a squirt gun".

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54:55 PM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to Maxwell:   New Content

Maxwell, you seemed to prove to me that the squash on your shoulders is packed with

sound gray matter.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:07:06 PM

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David William Pear

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Proof that one can never underestimate the intelligence of the American people.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 4:04:56 PM

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K V Ramani

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Reply to David William Pear:   New Content

Perhaps you meant to say overestimate? :-)

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:43:13 PM

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Helen Carpenter

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We shouldn't be even treating this as a 'debate'.

First of all, these two candidates are stand-ins for the same psychopaths running the show into the ground. It's like two flavors at Baskin-Robbins.

I don't believe Trump is that ditzy - he's playing the role to the hilt. And Biden is just filling space for....ugh.....

And to keep it good theater, Chris Wallace just let it rip. Remember, the same criticism was launched during the last presidential debates which degenerated into free for alls.

Ratings - they want the chaos.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:38:34 PM

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Steve Schneider

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Gary Owen @garyowencomedy has a point:

"This debate needs Samuel L Jackson as the moderator."

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:59:52 PM

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Kenneth Lee

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I was watching re-runs of the old tv show "The Lost World", then took a more comedic, slightly less violent break to watch the expected 'theatre' of the so-called "debate", then back to "The Lost World". Seemed to blend in perfectly...

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:24:33 PM

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William P. Homans

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I was just talking with a researcher friend in Maine, and towards the end I told him I had got his call while I was watching the debate through for the second time. He chuckled and asked me if I had been to the shrink for these masochistic tendencies.

Biden had the right response, early, for all of Trump's characterizations: "He didn't have a plan." I thought he reinforced that as well as he might, considering the beastly blustering boor across the stage interrupting him (somebody counted it at CBS) 73 times.

I have said far and wide that one of the most central and lasting damages Trump has done since the 2015 campaign is the ravaging of American political and social civility. Perhaps this is inevitable in a post-modern, information-driven society.

But Trump has been a model, an icon (been taking pleasure in it at least since he appeared on WWF decades ago), for the most boorish and least reflective behaviors; the Hollywood Tapes only helped fill out the picture (and enough women still voted for him to get him snuck in!). This was really ugly; Joe Biden put it just right: "that's so unpresidential."

I was gratified to hear Biden affirm something that I predicted as a minimum in an article several months ago, that the US would rejoin the Paris Accords. Trump, for his part, either had no comprehension of the phenomenon of man-driven climate change, or was just being his usual giga-cynical self, when he took up his time talking about growing trees, and about people, instead of rising temperatures and drier climate, being at fault for the forest fires because they didn't keep 'em swept.

I figger ignorance is always a driving cause of his rash and uncoordinated decision-making as much as greed ;) .

I don't grade Chris Wallace quite as low as some of my pundit colleagues do. I think he did a creditable job in the questioning, and he did TRY to restrain the President, but norms of decorum mean nothing to Trump, who was wound up like he was on amphetamines.

I don't know if even Anderson Cooper, a known commanding presence as moderator, would have been able to control Trump, twisting and turning and squirming in what he must understand is his last hoorah.

With no sense of irony, Trump declared, "I was elected; elections have consequences." And as though he thought we might forget: "I wasn't elected for 3 years, I was elected for four." I can do what I want as fast as I want to-- pushing Barrett through-- getting that done will pave my way for four more years, and make the court conservative for decades even if I don't-- but, well, of course I'm gonna win?!

Biden won decisively on my card. A B+/A- performance, and no more talk about mental acuity.

Trump doesn't care now except about his base, and he didn't do great among them, the pundits say. Maybe he calls it a success, but I can't imagine Mark Meadows calling it that privately, any more than I could imagine Meadows, or Tim Murtaugh or Peter Navarro, telling him to his face that it wasn't.
Grade of F.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:25:35 PM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to William P. Homans:   New Content

Slim, Yur friend in Maine appears to be quite perceptive like all us other Mainiacs.

Nels Wight, nonagenarianfrom Belfast.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 10:58:06 PM

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John Zwiebel

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After reviewing the comments and continuing to slog through the debate a few minutes at a time, I still think Trump Won.

Biden totally failed to support policies I want and he continued to deny the "Green New Deal" while at the same time promoting individual aspects of the "Deal" to create jobs.

I thought Biden's claim that these jobs wouldn't be $15/hour but prevailing wage to be an excellent twist on words since "prevailing" could be much less than $15!

Trump appealed to his base and they are going to show up at the polls. Biden supporters are going to "mail it in". The mail in ballots are going to be thrown out in many of the swing states.

I confess surprise that Biden was able to hold it together for the entire debate.

Anyway, Trump won because his voters are going to support him while Biden just continues to piss me off.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:37:26 PM

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Nels Wight

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Reply to John Zwiebel:   New Content

John, I have always loved onions, especially for flavor, but I'm now admiring their smartness.

wie gehts dir?

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:13:44 PM

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Lois Gagnon

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I didn't watch because I knew it would be a cartoonish sh*t show. From the clip I saw on the 11:00 nooze and what I've read, I made the right decision.

One bright spot for me is I read that both the Green Party candidate's and the Libertarian candidate's web pages crashed shortly after the debate due to heavy traffic. LOL! I hope there are going to be more "debates".

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:43:04 PM

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John Zwiebel

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If you haven't done so, watch the CBS analysis that followed the debate. I swear it is the most absurd comedy I've seen in ages. I am actually laughing out loud. The anchor talking over Trump Jr when he brings up the GOP version of Russiagate is exactly what Trump was doing to Biden.

WRT GOP version of Russiagate, Don Jr. is saying exactly the same thing, "there is a clear indication that Russia interfered with the 2016 election" -- of course, he leaves the impression that it was to help Biden.

The accusation against Biden that you don't wait 50 years to start reform kind of stings.

Did you notice that the post debate analysis opened with an accusation that Biden was misleading because he said 100M Americans when the real answer was between 60 and 130M. So much for fact checking by the MSM.

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:51:51 PM

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John Zwiebel

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I guess this letter to Lindsey Graham proves Russiagate is not a hoax. I guess I'd classify it as a farce.

My apologies that I have no idea how to import it as a pdf so it might be legible.

intel letter to Graham
intel letter to Graham
(Image by Public)
Details DMCA

Submitted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:08:09 PM

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Mike Preston

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The Body Language Ghost channel on YT put up "Body Language: First Presidential Debate 2020"at .youtube.com/watch?v=qG3AoawrYNk

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:28:54 AM

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Mark Sashine

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It becomes painfully obvious, folks that Biden and Trump have more in common than they differ. It also becomes painfully obvious that both of them personify the rampant ignorance and hypocrisy. Trump in sorts in ' Biden's offspring'. No matter how you frame it, the stench of corruption, greed and utmost stupidity was paramount at those debates. I will vote for Biden but it is just unbelievable that we have such a choice. And Biden will lose primarily because the Demparty already shot itself in the foot by offering a Catholic.. Sorry.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 12:52:32 PM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to Mark Sashine:   New Content

Mark,

If you wish, see the book Awakening Earth, by Duane Elgin for the straight poop on where our species has been, is now, and may be in the decades and centuries ahead. The coming ecological (et. al.) crises will either serve to pull our species together push us apart. And woe is us, if the latter occurs. In the final analysis, this is a crisis of maturity; we are beginning an initiation ritual from adolescence to young adulthood. May we move through this trial by fire successfully,

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:58:56 PM

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