Donald Black: Well
you're absolutely correct, and there is a book on the market that gets into
that, and it's called Snakes in Suits.
They're essentially the white-collar criminal, and say your co-worker is
essentially a snake. But I think for
just an ordinary work situation, let's say your co-worker is absent a lot - so
a lot of absenteeism; or the person lies frequently, so you ask them about
being absent or away, and they concoct lies that maybe later are exposed; or
there are are petty arguments that develop, or disputes, or even fights in the
workplace. This is how it probably
manifests most often, and it's probably not all that apparent or dramatic in
most situations.
It's probably just quiet problems. You notice that there's something not quite
right about your co-worker. They're away
a lot, or they don't do the work that's assigned to them, and maybe you end up
having to do more work because they're not doing it, and yet they produce all
kinds of excuses which are probably just lies.
This would accumulate over time, and eventually they'd get fired or
reassigned, or maybe they'd just quit because they think they're being taken
advantage of. So those are typical of
the sorts of things that you might see in the workplace.
Rob Kall: How about
really smart sociopaths? I have a
feeling that they all think that they're really smart, but what about high IQ
ones and high-functioning ones who are working as administrators, managers,
even CEOs. What would they look
like? How would you detect potential
sociopathic behavior among high-level, high-functioning people?
Donald Black: Well
that's an excellent question, and I'm not sure exactly how to answer that,
other that perhaps they engage in behavior that's sleazy or criminal, and if
they're caught engaging in some criminal [act].
Let's say someone in high finance who developed some illegal investment
scheme, and then they lie about it, and they cover up. But at that level, they probably have lawyers
and others, and layers of protection. I
mean, we certainly see this sort of thing: sometimes it's exposed and the
person gets caught, other times, not.
But it's a problem, because how do you identify it and call it for what
it is?
Rob Kall: Sounds
like something that ought to be researched.
It probably could be costing our society billions of dollars.
Donald Black: I think
there's no question about that.
Rob Kall: But like
you said there's no research. Why do you
think that is, that there's no research?
I mean, literally one study on sociopaths! Considering how many studies there must have
been on bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia, and other disorders with similar
occurrences of 4.5% of the population, it is bizarre and crazy and inexplicable
why there is so little research!
Donald Black: I agree,
and I don't understand this. There's a
government website called Reporter , and it lists
all of the research grants funded by the federal government. This is run by the National Institutes of
Health, so it's the NIH website. And you
can enter into their search box keywords like "Anti-social," or even
"Psychopath," or "Sociopath," or "Personality Disorder," and I did that as I was rewriting my book
last summer, and I put these facts in the book.
But there were like five research grants in which the term "Anti-social
Personality" appeared in the title; and I thought, this is wrong. If you do that with "Schizophrenia," you
literally get hundreds (if not thousands) of hits, whereas "Anti-social,"
almost nothing. Psychopathy was a little
bit more, but not much. It's clearly
underrepresented in the research field.
It's like no one cares about it, and yet it is this common and highly
problematic disorder.
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