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"We need to stop this culture before it kills the planet": A conversation with Derrick Jensen

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Mickey Z.
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DJ: There's a great line by Upton Sinclair about how it's hard to make a man [sic] understand something when his [sic] job depends on him not understanding it. I think that's true even more for entitlement. It's hard to make someone understand something when their entitlement, their privilege, their comforts and elegancies, their perceived ability to control and manage, depends on it.

 

So much nature writing, social change theory, and environmental philosophy are at best irrelevant, and more often harmful in that they do not question human supremacism (or for that matter white supremacism, or male supremacism). They often do not question imperialism, including ecological imperialism. So often I feel like so many of them still want the goodies that come from imperialism (including ecological imperialism and sexual imperialism) far more than they want for these forms of imperialism to stop. And since the violence of imperialism is structural--inherent to the process--you can't realistically expect imperialism to stop being violent just because you call it "green" or just because you wish with all your might.

 

Here's another way to say this: as I say in Endgame, any way of life that requires the importation of resources will a) never be sustainable and b) always be based on violence, because a) requiring importation of resources means you are using more of that resource than the landbase can provide, which is by definition not sustainable (and as your city grows you'll need an ever larger area to harm); and b) trade will never be sufficiently reliable, because if you require some resource (e.g., oil) and the people who live with or control that resource won't trade you for it, you will take it, because you need it. It's inherent. One of the many implications of this is that if you don't question imperialism itself, the solutions you present will be absurd, and either irrelevant or harmful.

 

Here's a story. A couple of weeks ago a tree fell down in a storm and knocked down an electric wire in this neighborhood. My neighbor told me about it, and when I saw the downed tree I looked and looked and looked for the stump, to see where the tree came from. I couldn't find it. I've looked again every time I've gone by that place. Well, today I was walking and I saw where it came from. The top of a big tree had broken off. It was really obvious when I looked up instead of down. Point being (instant aphorism): You can search as thoroughly as is possible, but you'll never find what you're looking for if you're looking in the wrong place.

 

This applies to everything from personal happiness to solutions to global warming.

 

But the problem is worse than mere entitlement. RD Laing came up with the three rules of a dysfunctional family:

Rule A is don't.

Rule A.1 is Rule A does not exist

Rule A.2 is Never discuss the existence or nonexistence of Rules A, A.1, A.2

 

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