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Paul Jay
And on February 5th, if I remember the date correctly, is the date they have to renew the START Nuclear Arms Treaty, which Biden says they're going to do. But is Biden going to be able to do it in the midst of, a supposed, Russian attack on American national infrastructure? I mean, I wonder, is this a game to undo the nuclear treaty.
You may have thrown out another instrument of change here that says, "Oh, man, got to have Russia really looking tough because we don't want this nuclear weapons treaty renewed,". You're looking at a multi-billion dollar waste program, another multibillion-dollar, it's out at Hansford, it's in Utah making billionaires every day people who dispose of the detritus of the nuclear weapons industry, if you will. Yes, it's a niche part of the complex, but it's a very lucrative niche, part of the complex for key people. I'll give you an example of how key and how lucrative part of the complex it is. We've not added a statutory member to the National Security Council in years and then in the late 70s because of the senator from New Mexico. Does this ring a bell with you, New Mexico? We got a new statutory member on the National Security Council, the secretary of energy, the secretary of Treasury is not even a statutory member for the council, but the secretary of energy is that's the power of this niche. Moneyed complex, very, very talented people involved with it, an industry that if it were to disperse, as they did when the
Soviet Union collapsed, it would contaminate the world as it did when the Soviet Union collapsed. This is something we got to keep, it's sacrosanct and it's in there and it's powerful.
Paul Jay
So just while we're here to talk about why that treaty is important, because it just occurred to me, as I'm sitting here, that there's a lot of machinations going on here. When you've got all the weird stuff going on about Iran Elliot, Abrams goes to the Middle East and then Pompeo goes there, and then the Iranian scientist is assassinated after Netanyahu apparently went to Riyadh and met with the Saudis, and after that, the Iranian scientists gets killed.
Now, you got this whole thing going about the hacking, and it's Russia. There's a lot of last-minute crap going on in this administration.
Larry Wilkerson
Right. And there's a lot of crap that's going on in order to create the new world, we need in order for this massive complex we've created to survive and prosper. I was just mentioning to you earlier before we went on air that you look at this COVID-19 stimulus package and you find F-35 acquisition in it. You also find dollars going out to defense contractors to, "Help them with their coronavirus affected employees,".
This is typical Congress, but it's also a typical empire. We're fueling the complex that we've created since the 1947 National Security Act, and that complex is eating our lunch. It's eating our lunch literally in the fact that it's going to take so much of the federal budget that there will be no discretionary spending left in another seven or eight years.
Paul Jay
If the Russians did what, NBC and almost the entire mainstream media is saying they did, isn't that an act of war?
It is. I mean, we forget about this, the things that we're doing when sanctions fall with Venezuela, with Russia, with Iran, are acts of war. In the traditional sense, in the 20th-century sense, even in the late 19th century, they were acts of war. I don't know what they are in the 21st century because we seem to have rewritten the book in the 21st century, starting with 9/11, but they are acts of war. And you could, under international law, respond to these things with other acts of war that would be more traditional, if that's what you decided to do.
Paul Jay
So what do you make of the media? What are the depths to which this media has descended? I mean, the way they played this," Russia story", previously came to be known as Russia-gate, and now they're doing it again, in some ways even much moredangerously.
Larry Wilkerson
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