And what happens is that [this law enforcement creates]...they say, "Okay, I'm going to make you a criminal." And then when [immigrants] do their everyday stuff, and then they get criminalized, then they say, "Well, they got arrested because they violated the law," when they created the law so that they could arrest people. It's no different than apartheid in the Bantustan, and apartheid laws that basically were made so to keep a certain sector of cities. They wanted the labor of the African communities, the South African communities, but they didn't want them there.
And, to me, the same thing [is happening] but at a global level, at the continental level. They want our labor but they don't want us. So that type of situation, to me, is inhumane, immoral and basically goes to the very heart of our humanity. And, unfortunately, Trump seems to have at least close to 50% of the population of the United States wanting him to be president.
DB: Well, he's up by a couple of points in the latest polls, that's for sure. And I guess this thing about repression also goes to the fact that people will be more hesitant to seek medical help when they need it. Or for a woman to deal with an abusive husband, or a man in the house, if they need the help. So this becomes a grave danger, given this kind of law and repression. This is what people who you work with feel like every day in Arizona, huh?
SR: Yes. And you know what's really funny? Some of the local [police] chiefs in this area, don't think that their job is to do immigration work. And they basically don't like for the police officers to do immigration work. Yet, the law permits them to do it. And the thing is, you have very strong police officers' associations that basically lobbied for the law, and they will fight, tooth and nail, for the officers to be able to deport people.
DB: Under ICE now, deportations are considered a national security action. And folks, everyday folks, people who do the hardest work in this country, who get abused every day for it, are all of a sudden become turned into national security risks, and thus it justifies the brutality of law enforcement. How do you respond to that?
SR: Well, it's like one, they criminalize you, then they dehumanize you. When they dehumanize you, they can do anything they want to against you, and the population will applaud it, or a certain percentage of the population will applaud it. It's no different than what Hitler did, you know? He demonized the Jewish communities, and then pretty soon people that had Jewish workers, or were working with Jewish people, then they started denouncing them, and then trying to save themselves from not being associated with them. And that's what the laws do here. [...] If you give somebody a ride that's an "illegal alien" then you are aiding and abetting. Then the law says you become the criminal, even though you were giving a ride to a friend. That's the type of situation that's being created, unfortunately, nationwide, now.
DB: And, just finally, just so we're fair and balanced here, we're sort of dealing with the major candidates. I imagine that you have some real concern with Hillary Clinton besides her connection to Obama. The fact that she, as Secretary of State, supported the coup in Honduras, and policies, free trade policies, that have forced migration out of countries in Central America, and so on and so forth. I guess that's a concern as well, on the other side.
SR: Well, like I said, both parties to me are the same. They're just appendages of a capitalist system that only see profit. They don't care about human beings. To me they're the same. Now, what we have to decide is [...] which one of the three is the worse evil. Because [...] under this false democracy, that's all that's left. They leave us to...just to deal with who can we influence more, Hillary or Donald. And I really don't know, in reality, which one is the best, because both of them are pretty bad.
The thing is, we have to make the decision whether we want [...] somebody that's going to be crazy enough to unleash the police forces throughout the United States, and then create a vigilante type of a movement, like we have here in Arizona. Or, do we want somebody that's going to be more middle of the road, trying to look liberal? Where they'll let you at least say a word or two, whether they listen to you or not, at least they give you an opening. So, that's what we're going to make a decision on. But to me, both parties are just the same face...two faces of the same coin.
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