SR: Exactly. And then he marched them for all the media to see, and humiliate them, and basically say, "Look, I am tough on illegal immigration. This is the way it is supposed to be." And even in [Trump's] speech [at the RNC] he said that in this nation people care more about illegal aliens, for the lives of "illegal aliens," than U.S. citizens. And there was Arpaio saying it, exactly when the judge saying he could not be arresting people on the grounds of their status.
The thing is, the torture for the community here, and the violence against the community, is very bad. Like Arpaio, he has two, three people getting killed in his jails, that we know of. And then there's people that die, and we don't know of[...]. Every year there's two-three people that get killed in jail.
DB: What's an example? How do they die in the jails? Explain to us why it's suspicious.
SR: Well, sometimes it's not even suspicious, they basically beat them to death. Like this veteran that [...] had PTSD. He goes in there, he's complying. And they surround him, about 10 deputies, and beat him into unconscious. And they basically left him there at the powder room [...]. And then another deputy actually steps on somebody, on their neck. He puts him on a table, gets on top of the table, and steps on his neck.
And those are the ones that we know of. The ones we don't know of, I don't know what it is. But the thing is, Arpaio is bad on his jails, Arpaio is bad on enforcement, Arpaio is bad on the psychological warfare against the community. Yet that's what Donald Trump stands for. That's a problem. Donald Trump is just like Joe Arpaio, except magnified by a lot more power.
DB: We're talking about the kinds of policies that are now being threatened by Donald Trump, by his close relationship with Joe Arpaio. He is now an adviser to Trump, an informal adviser, a supporter. [He] was featured at the convention the day leading up to Trump's statement and acceptance of the Republican nomination for the presidential convening.
Now we know, Salvador, that under the Obama government, [Obama has] been referred to as the deporter-in-chief. Essentially, Arpaio has a friend, in that the prison industrial complex, the private prison industry has blossomed. And it exists now to torture the kinds of people that Joe Arpaio arrests, and sort of torture at the local level. That's part of the whole national security program that is inspired by this kind of policy. How do you respond to that?
SR: Well, I'll just tell you that Arpaio, for 18 years, was on the 18th floor of the Wells Fargo building here in Phoenix, Arizona, living in corporate offices, because Wells Fargo is one of the biggest investors in the prison industrial complex. So, he basically sent people to the jails, and they get something like $200/day for everybody they send there. So, that tells you a little bit about that.
And the difference between the two parties, to me, the Democratic party and the Republican party, it doesn't matter who gets up there, the[y] will be still under the influence of the prison industrial complex. And they will continue this type of immigration policies, including [how] Obama deported 2.5 million people, that I know of, during his tenure. That's more than anybody else [...] and we're talking about the massive deportations in the 30's and massive deportations in the 40's, the massive deportations anytime. I mean he has deported more people than anybody else. Yet, he's supposed to be our friend.
So, to me, the Democrats and the Republicans or any party, in reality, they will all have to basically kowtow to the prison industrial complex. So, we have to organize on our own, and put pressure [on] whatever party is up there, because maybe one will deport more than the other. But, [...] to me, 2.5 million people deported in eight years is a lot of people.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers arresting suspects during a raid in 2010.
(Image by (Photo Courtesy of ICE)) Details DMCA
DB: And are you getting some of the same reports that we're getting, that the treatment of folks who are being arrested by the government, taken into custody by ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement], being swept up, are being brutalized at various levels and in many ways?
SR: Oh, yeah. I mean people die all the time under custody. They are punished severely if they protest. If they try to organize in any way, shape, or form they basically put them in the hole. People whose only crime was to work, all of a sudden they have to deal with being thrown in the hole, in solitary. So, it's not nicey-nice, like they say.
It's not even supposed to be imprisonment. It's supposed to be detention. But in reality it's a long term detention, for a lot of people stay there for 1.5-2 years waiting to resolve their case. And they don't let them out into the streets, even though they're no danger to anybody, because they're collecting money on it.
DB: We talked a little bit about this before, but I want to come back to the atmospheric pressure. Could you talk a little bit more about how people have really changed their lives, how they live more cautiously, how they live more in fear, how they perhaps act in ways that try and anticipate and take precautions against being arrested, being abused by these laws?
SR: Well, the people that get close to organizations where they know their rights, more than likely they'll not get deported. More than likely they'll just end up, one day, in a local detention center and let go. But the people that don't know that, they end up being deported, because they'll sign. Once they sign, they lose all their rights. In reality, the way people behave [...] right now, they try to drive less. If they don't have to, they won't drive. They basically, something as simple as giving them a drivers license is something that is beyond the state of Arizona, or many other states.
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