But this is, you know this case really touches on a lot of the themes in the book. Which is that we've got, federal government interfering in local police work, warping the priorities of police department, giving them incentive to devote more resources to consensual crimes, drug crimes, than, you know, going after rapists and murderers and burglars.
And then you've got, you know, all of this equipment that the Pentagon and DHS are giving these departments that they then need to call in SWAT teams. A SWAT teams pretty expensive to maintain, so you send them out on drug raids, because that brings, again, the promise of, or federal grants and also assets forfeiture, which allows a police department to keep the proceeds of any drug dealers that they bust, or any drug offenders at all that they bust.
So that case really kind of embodies a lot of the theme in the book. And unfortunately, you know, in the fact that there was, you know, a lot of publicity around this case and a lot of outrage, and a lot of promises for reform. And then nothing substantive happening because of it. That is also, unfortunately, emblematic of, you know, what's, what's basically happened in this trend in the last generation or so.
Rob Kall: Why didn't that story make it in the book?
Radley Balko: Well because there were a lot of others that are even more outrageous. And, you know, there's only so much room for so many case studies.
Rob Kall: Right. So, the police lied repeatedly, and in this case they all got fired. I'm guessing that's not the norm?
Radley Balko: No, and actually in this case, the individual officers who conducted the raid, were actually criminally prosecuted, and a couple of them actually did prison time. Not as, not as much as anyone else would get if they murdered a ninety two year old woman. But they did do some time. And that, that's extremely rare. But yeah most of the time, you know, the police department, if a police officer makes any mistake or is negligent in one of his raids, they're almost always given the benefit of the doubt. They're, you know, criminal charges are vanishingly rare, and it's, you know, it's also extremely rare for people who are the victims of these raids to get any sort of compensation in court.
Rob Kall: You know, you mentioned in your book that there are about a hundred SWAT team raids a day that happen in the United States. Which works out to close to forty thousand a year, that's insane. I mean it's, it's terrifying really.
Radley Balko: Yeah, and actually the numbers, as of 2005 it was fifty thousand per year, and that's the last year that this particular criminologist did his survey. But, you know, all the trends that were driving the number, that drove the number up to fifty thousand have continued. So it's, it's likely that the number is even higher now. But yeah, its somewhere between a hundred and a hundred and fifty times a day in this country, you have police officers, you know dressed and armed like soldiers, breaking into private homes. And the vast majority of the time it's to serve warrants on people who are suspected of consensual non violent drug crimes.
Rob Kall: So it could be a hundred thousand a year? Something, those, by now?
Radley Balko: Well I mean at this point we're just kind of speculating. But you know it was up to fifty thousand by 2005, and, you know, we're eight years out from that. And, you know if anything, the Obama administration has actually increased the funding to all these federal grant programs, and DHS has continued to give out its grants to buy the military equipment. In fact the Pentagon program, the surplus program, where the Pentagon gives away surplus military equipment to police departments which has been going on for thirty years. But actually in 2011, the program set its all time record, it gave away over five hundred million dollars worth of equipment. So, you know, all the trends that have been driving, that drove us up to fifty thousand have continued.
Rob Kall: Over five hundred million dollars, and when was this? Last year? Or 2011?
Radley Balko: It was in 2011. Last year, I haven't seen the numbers yet for last year. Last year the program was actually suspended briefly for a couple of months, because you know, officials learned that some police departments were actually selling this equipment to private parties.
I think a sheriff in Tempe, Arizona, was caught selling some of his military gear that he had, that he had obtained through the Pentagon.
Rob Kall: Wow. So, this is frightening. Now in, in your book you you basically describe how the militarization of America's police forces, there's a kind of centralization where the Feds and federal policy, is, is an attempt at getting federal policies into more local state situations. Could you talk about that?
Radley Balko: Sure. Well I mean policing has always been, a local issue, I mean the federal government up until the Nixon administration at least tended, tended to stay out of criminal justice. With the exception of you know, the few federal crimes that there were up until, I dunno the 60s or the 70s, the numbers have exploded since then. But yeah for the most part if it wasn't a kidnapping or some sort of a, you know, a bank robbery, postal fraud situation. Crime was a local issue.
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