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Transcript: Andrew Schmookler Part 2; Hierarchical Republican Culture

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I interviewed Andrew Bard Schmookler on February 23 rd .  This is part two of a two part interview.

Here's the first half:

Hierarchical Republican Culture-- transcript of an interview with Andrew Schmookler, part 1

Thanks to Don Caldarazzo   for doing the transcript.

Rob Kall: How's that going to happen as long as there is one person or one group that exploits power and weapons?

Andrew Schmookler:   The reason that this power was a contaminate was that there was no overarching order to regulate the interactions; so it meant that there was nothing of any power in the way of somebody doing that.  You need an immune system; because there is always going to be a pathogen, but a pathogen into the civilization of the last x-thousand years has been a pathogen in an organism that has very little resistance, if any. 

But in the course of the 20th Century, ideas and organizations have been developing in fits and starts: we work toward global treaties, we have a nuclear non-proliferation treaty, we try to start making decision together; and it was moving in that direction, but of course this force on the Right will have none of it.  They are not interested in a Law of the Sea, they're not interested in treaties banning destabilizing weapons systems like "Star Wars."  It's just that there are directions the world has to move.  I thought, when I first saw this back in the 1970s, when I first started seeing things really clearly in this kind of way, I really thought that by now we would have turned the corner, and we are in worse shape now than back in the 70s.

Rob Kall:   Why?

Andrew Schmookler:   Why? (Repeating question back)

Rob Kall:   Why are we in worse shape now?

Andrew Schmookler:   OK.  There are different levels to the answer.  The immediate level of answer is, "Because this force has seized hold of one of America's two major parties, and because it has been successful in getting enough power to demolish much of the country (through the Bush presidency and now through an opposition that is doing everything it can from keeping anything good from being accomplished), it has damaged us seriously.

Rob Kall:   Well, you know, I have to say, I used to be a Democrat, and I'm not anymore.  You have to -- the Supreme Court just rejected a request to reject espionage, domestic spying in the US that Obama administration has inflicted upon us, worse than Bush did.  This is a bipartisan problem, not just Republicans really, anymore.

Andrew Schmookler:   Well let me just say, none of our problems are just on the Republican side.  But if you look at that decision today, it was 5-4.  And you know what the 5-4 must have been, and you know that a Democratic appointed Justice would have been with these four.  So you're right: the Democratic Party is partially contaminated with the spirit which basically wholly owns the Republican Party of today.  So there's a real difference.

Rob Kall:   What is that spirit?

Andrew Schmookler:   It is a spirit which acts as if it is bent upon destruction.  It makes a fight out of everything.  It's not interested in cooperation, it's not interested in compromise, fighting is the message, because it is a force of brokenness.  It is insatiable when it comes to wealth and power.  There is no such thing as enough of wealth and power!  You can be the most powerful person in the world like George W. Bush was, and then you usurp still more power.  You could be the richest person in the world, a billionaire, like the Koch brothers, and still be willing to sacrifice the future of the planet for your own short term profit, for money that you'll never even come close to needing.

Rob Kall:   Insanity.

Andrew Schmookler:   Huh?

Rob Kall:   It's insanity.

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Rob Kall is editor-in-chief, publisher and site architect of, President of Futurehealth, Inc, and an inventor. He hosts the Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show, aired in the Metro Philly area on AM 1360, WNJC. Over 200 podcasts are archived for downloading here, or can be accessed from iTunes. Rob is also published regularly on the

Rob Kall Wikipedia Page

Rob is, with the first media winner of the Pillar Award for supporting Whistleblowers and the first amendment.

See more Rob Kall articles here and, older ones, here. To learn more about Rob and, check out A Voice For Truth - ROB KALL | OM Times Magazine and this article. For Rob's work in non-political realms mostly before 2000, see his C.V..  and here's an article on the Storycon Summit Meeting he founded and organized for eight years. Press coverage in the Wall Street Journal: Party's Left Pushes for a Seat at the Table

Here is a one hour radio interview where Rob was a guest- on Envision This, and here is the transcript. 

To watch Rob having a lively conversation with John Conyers, then Chair of the House Judiciary committee, click hereWatch Rob speaking on Bottom up economics at the Occupy G8 Economic Summit, here.

Follow Rob on Twitter & Facebook. His quotes are here

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And, like Rob, I keep coming back to this good v e... by Kim Cassidy on Tuesday, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:59:52 PM
I appreciate your insightrful comments about the s... by Andrew Schmookler on Wednesday, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:24:00 PM
In general Andy is all correct down to the point o... by Mark Sashine on Thursday, Mar 28, 2013 at 7:33:43 AM
I believe I've read now eight biographies of Churc... by Andrew Schmookler on Thursday, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:21:09 AM
really, had no chanceBut if firebombing Dresden&nb... by Mark Sashine on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:24:43 AM
One way I am not like the people against whom I am... by Andrew Schmookler on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 9:32:26 AM
to do.1. Churchill was not a primary political fig... by Mark Sashine on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:13:17 AM
In winter  of 1945 Churchill addressed Stalin... by Mark Sashine on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:49:30 AM
Clearly, the context here is bigger than Churchill... by Andrew Schmookler on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:27:48 PM
Obviously the  example of Churchill as a pers... by Mark Sashine on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:28:59 PM
THanks for the olive branch.  I appreciate it... by Andrew Schmookler on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 3:00:35 PM
then what about the ' strange war"?  in 1939,... by Mark Sashine on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:04:36 PM
The "phony war" --that's the name I know it by-- w... by Andrew Schmookler on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 8:13:21 PM
about the personality you admireI personally throu... by Mark Sashine on Saturday, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:43:41 AM
Churchill is one of the most popular people in the... by Mark Sashine on Saturday, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:58:05 AM
Hi Mark. Could you please say more about "As for D... by Daniel Penisten on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:13:18 PM
Dems and  GOP ( their upper levels, of course... by Mark Sashine on Saturday, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:38:25 AM
Mark and I have engaged in enough discussion/conte... by Andrew Schmookler on Saturday, Mar 30, 2013 at 11:02:55 AM
Yes Andrew Schmookler. I sense hidden forces in th... by Daniel Penisten on Saturday, Mar 30, 2013 at 12:42:16 PM
to read that book by CP Snow. It very clearly show... by Mark Sashine on Saturday, Mar 30, 2013 at 1:55:06 PM
MACHIAVELLIAN EVIL seems more "astute" to me... em... by Gusto on Thursday, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:22:18 PM
and I am not offended except for Machiavelli, who ... by Mark Sashine on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:26:48 AM
"Andy.... seems to have a lot in common with those... by Gusto on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 3:19:44 AM
I appreciate the way you frame this:  "Machia... by Andrew Schmookler on Friday, Mar 29, 2013 at 9:16:39 AM