Rob Kall: We've been
talking ins some very metaphorical, not concrete terms to it, and what we
really need to do is turn this into something very concrete. How do we do that?
Andrew Schmookler: OK,
well every time an issue comes up that you're going to be working on and
speaking toward, I think the question to ask is, "How can I use this issue to
help people see this dark, sick and broken spirit that's operating, that's
lying all the time, that appeals to peoples hatred and fears, that helps the
people who don't need help and preys upon the vulnerable that can't get enough,
that's willing to sacrifice anything or anyone to get more wealth and
power?
If the more we can
show people that, on this sequester that's coming because they won't raise any
revenues on people who are paying at the lowest rate in generations, when the
wealth distribution in this country has -- the one percent of one percent [1% of
1%] have tripled their share of the national wealth, and we've been moving in
all of the directions toward greater inequality than you can find anywhere else
in the advanced world, in that context, they are willing to cut social
programs, and unwilling to close tax loopholes.
That should be used to show not just, "Hey, what kind of policy is
this?", but "What is the spirit of this thing that is willing to take from the
people who need it and give to those who don't?"
Rob Kall: What about
the hierarchical culture? Is that
something that could be also be changed, addressed, by changing consciousness,
by waking people up? Or are we stuck
with that? Is that something that is not
going to be going away?
Andrew Schmookler: It's a very deep structure. I think it will not go away. It's not the only force that shapes the
psyche; there are other values. We all,
as Americans, we have founding fathers talking about "All men are created equal,
endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights to life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness." Those are
some of the values that are not hierarchical that are also part of the culture. So these different visions of things contend,
but I'd say that the more powerful - well, I don't know, they're both powerful,
there's a lot of belief in a certain kind of liberty of a "Leave me alone!"
kind. (laughs)
Rob Kall: A last thought: I've been doing this Bottom
Up Radio Show with the premise that the new generations that are being born -
the people who are, I 'd say thirty-three, thirty-four, and under [ --33-34] -
their brains have been marinated in a bottom up digital culture, and we know
now that those people are much more liberal than the generation before
them. Is it possible that this cultural
milieu, this digital milieu that they are growing up in, is going to have an
effect on their connection to the hierarchical culture and it's power over
them?
Andrew Schmookler: You've told me something I didn't know, so
let me just check and see whether you said what I think you said. Are you saying that there are studies that
show that the generation that's in the "Bottom Up Internet Age" is much less
hierarchically oriented than their parents?
Rob Kall: I can't say that. I am saying that they are more Bottom Up
oriented.
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