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Enviro Eco Nature    H5'ed 11/3/21

The Nexus between Pantheism, Quantum Physics and the Collective Unconscious

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If you look at the universe in a pantheistic way, where there is no personal God and all things emanate from the same universal source, then quantum physics, which is the study of how the universe works at a subatomic level, would play an important role in understanding how the universal source would be comprised of subatomic particles that transcend space and time and contain the history and wisdom of the universe. Some pantheists refer to this universal paradigm as God, but I don't, the same way Buddhists don't, because the word itself has too many preconceived religious ideas attached to it. Instead, I prefer to use Carl Jung's term, "collective unconscious."

According to Jung, humans have more than a personal consciousness, and this consciousness comes from a universal source, or as he describes it: "a second psychic system of a collective, universal, and impersonal nature which is identical in all individuals. This collective unconscious does not develop individually but is inherited." As a consequence, it is able to transfer information into a person's conscious mind (usually through the subconscious) in the form of intuition, dreams, strong feelings, or epiphanies. And this information is always beneficial because it contains the history and wisdom of the universe. Often times this information suddenly appears in one's personal consciousness without any effort, but you can also tap into the collective unconscious by meditating or using hallucinogenic drugs. According to Jung (and most Eastern philosophers), the part of the collective unconscious that comes though you is called the Self. Perhaps the most common example of this is when you have a "gut feeling" about something. Naturally there are times when you disregard your gut feeling because your Ego gets in the way and you usually end up regretting it. "I knew that was going to happen!" You chide yourself after you've made the wrong decision, but of course, it's too late.

Another example is when individuals take LSD and go on a "trip." Where do they go on this trip? Well, it's pretty obvious they're not going to Palm Springs! In point of fact, they're tapping into their collective unconscious and gaining wisdom or knowledge that is not available to them in their everyday lives. The same applies to individuals who have mastered the art of meditation. And if you combine the two within the same time frame, as I did at one point in my life, the effects can be even more illuminating and dramatic. In the early 1970s, Carlos Castaneda became an iconic figure and best-selling author of books like The Teachings of Don Juan, a Yaqui Way of Knowledge and A Separate Reality using these types of techniques.

Bear in mind that the Self is the part of the collective unconscious that is within you, but it is also without you, like the air that you breathe. And just as inhaling air changes its chemical composition from oxygen to carbon dioxide when you exhale it, the same can be said of the Self. As the collective unconscious flows through your body, its subatomic particles interact with the subatomic particles in your subconscious, which in turn reacts with your conscious mind and your Ego. Over the years, many observers have used the terms Self and Ego interchangeably, but they are actually quite different. The Ego is who you think you are based on the thoughts of others. For example, as you grow up, you're influenced primarily by your parents and your siblings, later on by your friends and associates. Naturally, you'll be influenced in both positive and negative ways. And so you develop your identity based on these experiences, some of which are quite traumatic and predetermine your personality into your adulthood. But is this identity the real You? And who is the real You? Sometimes it takes a lifetime to figure it out. Some people never do.

On the other hand, the Self is what a religious person would call the soul or the spirit that emanates from God, as if it were some translucent apparition floating in and out of one's body like Casper the Ghost. Obviously this interpretation is woefully misguided because there is nothing mystical or supernatural about the Self; in fact, it is just an amorphous field of subatomic particles traveling through your consciousness the same way the air enters your lungs.

If you've ever seen someone soon after they die, you know they don't look the same. They don't look like they're sleeping and they don't look like they're at peace. They look dead. I've personally witnessed this on several occasions. Religious people will say they look that way because their soul has left their body. But there is a better explanation, i.e., they look dead because their expired body has lost all consciousness and connection to the Self. And without this connection the physical body not only is dead but looks dead.

In the Middle Ages, most Judeo-Christian philosophers and theologians believed in a personal God and the concept of dualism, that is, a separation between the mind and body and the spiritual and physical. Of course, they could never quite make the connection between the two. Descartes is probably the most famous for trying. He hypothesized that the pineal gland, a tiny organ in the brain, is where the soul resides and is the interface between the spiritual and the physical. Needless to say, most modern day philosophers and scientists think this theory is absurd. Pantheists, (and Buddhists), of course, believe the whole idea of dualism is absurd. Yet, even today, many traditionally religious people, especially fundamentalists, still believe in this antiquated theory.

According to his writings, Einstein did not believe in a personal God, but he was in agreement with the pantheistic views of 17th century philosopher Baruch Spinoza, saying, "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." Many notable individuals throughout history shared this type of pantheistic view of the universe, including Marcus Aurelius, Henry David Thoreau, and Beethoven. It should be noted, however, that although Spinoza gets credit for being the "prophet" of pantheism, he didn't actually use the term. As to who coined the word itself, the honor goes to Irish writer/freethinker John Toland (1670-1722), who is called the "Father of Modern Pantheism."

In his book, The God Delusion, noted atheist Richard Hawkins refers to pantheism as "sexed-up atheism." Well, not quite, but I see what he's getting at, namely, that pantheists do not believe in a traditional "sky God," as George Carlin called him, and they take science and logic seriously. Actually Hawkins would have been more accurate if he had said that pantheism is really a "sexed-up" Western version of Buddhism, since the two belief systems have many ideas in common. For example, a pantheist (like a Buddhist) believes the world is not linear but circular. Nietzsche called it a "monster of energy, without beginning, without end." This concept also ties in nicely with quantum physics and the idea that time itself doesn't really exist, at least not in the classical sense.

But if life is a circle and there are no beginnings or ends, what happens to a person when he or she dies? What happens to the Self that once inhabited the person's body? When Khalil Gibran was asked this question, he replied: 'A moment's rest upon the wind and then I am born to another mother.' In other words, reincarnation, which could turn out as a good result for some, not so much for others. In any case, it's more optimistic than Nietzsche's gloomy concept of Eternal Recurrence where he forewarns: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything immeasurably small or great in your life must return to you-all in the same succession and sequence-even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned over and over, and you with it, a grain of dust."

Not a very pleasant view of eternal existence! It sure makes one want to root for the idea of being able to hop off the merry-go-round of life at some point. Buddhists would argue that until you have reached enlightenment/nirvana-- or to put it in a quantum physical wayuntil your subatomic particles have become harmonious with the collective unconscious, your Self will have to come back and try again. And this may take many lifetimes until you get it right.

In The Book of Mirdad, Khalil Gibran's friend and contemporary Mikhail Naimy described it this way: "When you pass out of the cycle known as life into the cycle known as death, and carry with you thirst unquenched for the Earth and hungers unappeased for her passions, then will the magnet of the Earth draw you again to her bosom. And the Earth shall suckle you, and Time shall wean you life after life and death after death until you wean yourself, once and for all, of your own will and accord."

Is this really possible? Or is this metaphorical posturing? Personally, I have never known anyone who I would say has reached enlightenment or nirvana. But I have known a couple of people who have come pretty close. But maybe that's the idea: that it's just an ideal to strive for. Maybe even the Buddha himself didn't totally escape samsara and reach enlightenment; maybe he just came pretty close and was mythologized in Eastern culture over the centuries for having attained the ultimate ideal, the same way Socrates reached apotheosis in Western culture.

But let's say, for the sake of argument, the Buddha actually did reach nirvana. What happened to his Self after he died? And what would happen to anyone's Self who reached nirvana after he or she died? Would that person automatically get off the merry-go-round of life, as Naimy claims, and become a free spirit in the universe with no physical connection to the Earth?

From what I gather, this is what Buddhists (and some pantheists) believe. Ironically, Socrates felt pretty much the same way, maintaining that when a person reached enlightenment, he or she would become "a spectator of all time and existence." In other words, a god. By the way, it's interesting to note that Socrates lived in roughly the same time period as the Buddha (around 450 BC), and perhaps it's more than a coincidence that the most revered Eastern philosopher from India and the most revered Western philosopher from Greece came to similar conclusions about the afterlife of an enlightened individual.

It's also interesting to note that as we move into the 21st century, statistically more individualsespecially the young---are giving up on traditional religion and becoming atheistic or agnostic. Perhaps as scientists learn more about quantum physics and its relationship to the collective unconscious, traditional religion will go the way of burning witches at the stake and atheism and agnosticism will be replaced by a more scientific version of pantheism.

 

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John F. Miglio is a freelance writer and the author of Sunshine Assassins, a dystopian political thriller. His articles have been published in a variety of periodicals, including Los Angeles Magazine and LA Weekly. His most recent articles (more...)
 

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John F. Miglio

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Are you a traditionally religious person? An agnostic? Or an atheist? Is it time to rethink your beliefs?

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Maxwell

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I have always considered myself a devout agnostic. The more specific a thing you truly believe, the more likely it is to be incorrect. Beyond what is empirically verifiable, we just don't know. I won't know for sure what happens to me after I die until I do--or not know, if there's nothing to know after that.

Quantum physics, for all its apparent weirdness, has little to say about spirituality. It is merely a system for predicting, to the extent possible, the results of experiments we can do on subatomic particles. However, Nietzsche's "theory of eternal recurrence" is almost exactly equivalent to Poincare's "recurrence theorem", which states that a bounded dynamical system, after a period of time, returns to its initial state. This appears to contradict the second law of thermodynamics, which states that the entropy of the universe can never decrease. It takes a lot of hand waving in statistical mechanics, which is the study of thermodynamics at the atomic level, to get out of that one.

There are many things in heaven and earth we do not understand.

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What about the idea of intuition coming from the collective unconscious? Wouldn't that indicate that there is something beyond our ego consciousness?

Submitted on Wednesday, Nov 3, 2021 at 5:38:33 PM

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Maxwell, if you wish, see Manifesto for the Noosphere by Jose Arguelles.

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John,

Also,

The Tao of Physics might be relevant for you. I appreciate your honesty in saying that you are a devout Agnostic. Although some of us may have used our intellect to construct a belief system (or come to this intuitively or studied the words of renowned "realized beings," such as the Buddha, Neem Karoli Baba, or Ananda Mayi Ma) - none of us can say that we "know", until we have transformed to a level of being in which a cosmic intelligence and love is more than obvious.

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John Hawkins

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"All, all except Phineas, constructed at infinite cost to themselves this Maginot Line against this enemy they thought they saw across the frontier, this enemy that never attacked that way--if he ever attacked at all. If indeed he was the enemy."
       -- John Knowles

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Generally good stuff, John. But you might want to fix a typo: It's Richard Dawkins nor Hawkins.

Also, it's always nice to hear someone weigh in on the Eternal Recurrence, but probably you should remind the reader that, pessimistic or no, Nietzsche resolves the pessimism in his concept of amor fati. Just sayin'.

And you might want to expand the quantum notions here with a view to emerging thinking along lines of phenomenology and panpsychism.

Enjoyable otherwise.

Submitted on Thursday, Nov 4, 2021 at 10:38:39 PM

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John Hawkins

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"All, all except Phineas, constructed at infinite cost to themselves this Maginot Line against this enemy they thought they saw across the frontier, this enemy that never attacked that way--if he ever attacked at all. If indeed he was the enemy."
       -- John Knowles

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Generally good stuff, John. But you might want to fix a typo: It's Richard Dawkins nor Hawkins.

Also, it's always nice to hear someone weigh in on the Eternal Recurrence, but probably you should remind the reader that, pessimistic or no, Nietzsche resolves the pessimism in his concept of amor fati. Just sayin'.

And you might want to expand the quantum notions here with a view to emerging thinking along lines of phenomenology and panpsychism.

Enjoyable otherwise.

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John F. Miglio

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Reply to John Hawkins:   New Content

Thanks for the positive remarks and pointing out the typo!

Yes, you could make the case that Nietzsche resolves the pessimism of eternal recurrence in amor fati; however, as you know, Nietzsche was not the most cheerful guy in the world given that he suffered from syphilis most of his adult life. So I wonder, did he believe his own philosophy as a practical matter? Or was it an ideal that he tried to live up to? Either way, it doesn't detract from the philosophy itself.

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A seeker tries to understand (a mental activity). An enlightened being is not "trying" to do anything. Meditate on "being versus doing".

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Yes, achieving indifference is one of the qualities of an enlightened individual.

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I would describe it as "loving indifference" or "loving awareness."

Submitted on Friday, Nov 5, 2021 at 1:45:08 PM

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Philip,

My sense is that you are unnecessarily limiting the role of "seeker." Many "seekers" know enough to move beyond the intellect, using spiritual practices such as kirtan, non-conceptually-based meditation, devotion, and selfless service.

Also, it seems to me that in your statement re- being and doing, you have fallen into the dualistic, disjunctive trap that Morin shows is so common today. Better: "both/and."

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For me the word "seeker" by definition means one who has not found what they are seeking. If one is practicing meditation, devotion, and selfless service because they are seeking some outcome they are close. When their meditation, devotion, and selfless service has become who they are (their being) they have transcended the role of seeker. It is giving up trying to achieve some state of being that they feel separated from. Some people call this "sweet surrender" or "letting go". I know for me I had to "let go" over and over again; I smile at myself as I say this. Namaste

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Philip,

I would say that "seeking" can have a variety of meanings.

In Buddhism, it is said that once one reaches the Ultimate, they naturally have a choice of "cycling off the wheel" and merging with the All, or, on the other hand, choosing to take on another physical incarnation to be of service to other beings. Is this "seeking" or not?

Then there is the "separate" question of taking birth on the subtle, causal, or non-dual planes of existence. I am not evolved enough to have answers to such questions, but instead attempt to do what Kalu Rimpoche advised Ram Dass: "Deepen your compassion, deepen your emptiness, honor your guru."

Aa I see, it the game is "becoming love."

Hopefully, I am making what the Buddha called "right effort."

I let the rest take care of itself.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 12:47:57 PM

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I spent many years seeking to understand the nature of "reality". I read a lot and my spiritual practices were trying to achieve the goal of experiencing some transcendent state of consciousness. I was attached to some imagined outcome (one that I had read about in books). All that reading and all that practice gave me the awareness that an altered state of consciousness is possible and indeed gave me some transcendental experiences; but it was transient. I got high and then I came back down; I was still the seeker wanting to understand, still searching after something I didn't quite grasp.

About 2 years ago on New Years day a thought came to me that I wanted to smile more. Followed by the idea for a new years resolution to look in the mirror each morning after I woke and smile at myself. At first it seemed silly and I made faces in the mirror and that made me laugh LOL. After several weeks of doing that it became routine. One morning I realized that I was just going through the motions, that I was not feeling my smile. It came to me to say/think "be here now in loving awareness" as I smiled. Over time this practice, to smile with loving awareness, has became my way of being in the world. Whenever I meet someone be it a friend or a casual encounter I smile and I am loving awareness. I have become unconditional love, I am that being that I had sought.

Submitted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2021 at 10:23:05 AM

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I do think all my searching/reading/meditation was instrumental in getting me to this place. For example, I had learned to pay attention, to trust, thoughts or situations that comes to me out of the blue. I would probably just dropped doing that silly smiling at myself in the mirror had I not learned to trust that idea that came to me all of a sudden. I also would not have thought to add the phrase "be here now in loving awareness" had I not read Ram Dass' books. I have tried setting new years resolutions in the past only to forget all about them come springtime or before; but this one I kept because I trusted that the idea that came to me and I could feel it working - I was smiling a lot more and feeling love flowing within me every time I smiled. So I recognize that all my past searching was highly beneficial, perhaps even essential.

I did reason that this process is like Pavlov and his dogs. I had learned at an early age to smile at others and by connecting the phrase "being here now in loving awareness" with smiling I was training myself to be here now in loving awareness every time I smiled. Just like Pavlov's dogs began to salivate when they heard a bell ring I entered a state of loving awareness whenever I smiled. For me the ability to enter a state of loving awareness was of value not that Pavlov's stimulus/response can be useful on humans in ways other than salivating when a dinner bell is rung.

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John F. Miglio

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From what you said, it sounds as if you made a lot of progress over the years to "know yourself" and then act accordingly. Does using your technique of "being here now in loving awareness" always work? Or are there times when you meet an antagonistic person, lose your state of "indifference" and react with anger?

Submitted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2021 at 2:54:07 PM

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I am retired and so I don't meet a lot of people in situations where antagonism is likely. What I have noticed in meeting store clerks, restaurant waiters, and casual encounters like other shoppers is that we are more likely to engage in conversation. Perhaps it is because I engage them by looking directly at him/her, smile, and say "hello". In short, I am more friendly than I used to be. Before I would respond to the other person smiling or saying hello to me otherwise I would have paid no attention to an encounter with someone I didn't know. That is why I think I wanted to smile more; that I subconsciously knew I wanted to be more friendly and outgoing.

On social media sites like Facebook I do encounter anger and antagonism (of course) and I no longer feel anger. Most of the time I make no comment, just let it be, and move on. Occasionally I will make a comment that seems like I was prompted to do so by some inner voice (universal consciousness?}. That inner voice seems to know how to respond in a way that is "perfect"; is always loving and wise. This is a change in me; I now will say something that seems to come not from my thinking mind; but some other intelligence. When that is in writing I stop and read what I wrote and it is like someone else wrote it and I am reading it myself for the first time. My initial comment on this thread was of that nature. I don't know why I wrote that; but I have come to trust that someone will read it and find it beneficial.

To answer you directly, I only know it has changed me. The fact that you are asking makes me think you may be urged by your inner self to give it a try. Namaste

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 8:37:09 AM

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John F. Miglio

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Reply to Philip Pease:   New Content

The "inner voice" that you hear is the Self, and it contains the history and wisdom of the universe. I think the more in tune you are with it (and you seem to be very in tune) the more you will follow its advice.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 12:11:03 PM

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Blair Gelbond

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Reply to Philip Pease:   New Content

Philip,

Thank you for sharing (and reminding me about) this practice.

My understanding is that very, very few beings on Earth have "finished their work" (perhaps Neem Karoli Baba and the Buddha, to name a few). It seems possible that even highly evolved beings may continue their work in higher planes of being/ecologies of light. "Seeking" may go on in subtler and subtler forms.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 12:15:53 PM

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:   New Content

Yes. New information, new insight, more wisdom comes all the time. I am not saying that I have stopped accepting new ideas; but that I no longer am searching for some answer. Indeed it seems that the more I let go of trying to understand the more open I become to receiving the information a situation calls forth.

I have a hunch it is a psychological condition involving the subconscious mind hearing me think over and over "I wish I understood" and acting to keep that "wishing" present (wishing I understood is the same as not knowing). The reality could be that cosmic consciousness does understand it all but to have access one needs to accept (have faith?) that answers will be provided as the situation calls for.

My interactions with you Blair over the past few months has "opened me up" to new insights and understanding. Thank you much.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 1:28:06 PM

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Philip,

Likewise.

And thanks so much for your acknowledgement. It is so satisfying to be heard and appreciated.

I wish people expressed that to others on this site more often!

I think what you said above is right on. I believe that as we work on ourselves we evoke more wisdom (at the level of being). At the same time we have to let go of impatience and be willing to share whatever we have received with others. ("Preparing the base camp from Mt. Analogue)

"It's all done with mirrors!"

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 3:22:52 PM

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John:

Some presumably channeled material states that the big bang brought forth The Source of all which is the unlimited potential to become. Unlimited surely means become more or less. The intelligence sponsoring this have concluded that the unlimited potential to become would remain just that unless there were coincidental organizing principles. Long story short it states that the first principle -like attracts like- within the frame of eternity resulted in unlimited potential producing a self aware aspect of source which was aware of itself being aware of itself within the whole while not being the whole. Big deal.

And so arrived consciousness within Source and consciousness can think and if you can think you can intend. 'They' contend that thought thinking (intent) at grand scale can create out of source energy the shape and form of what is intended resulting in what we experience as. the physical universe.

That may not be deemed relevant but I am sure sub-atomic particles et al are our effort to 'see' Source energy (good luck) and our agonizing about and over our reincarnational machinations are our effort to 'see' beyond the capacity of our vision at the current level of our general spiritual state of being.

Sooner or later it will become clearer and clearer. Still, all fun stuff.

Don Scotten

Submitted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2021 at 2:35:20 PM

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Reply to Don Scotten:   New Content

As you probably know, the Big Bang Theory is controversial and doesn't answer all the relevant questions regarding existence; moreover, it gets caught in the trap of traditional linear thinking. For example, I don't see much of a difference saying the world began with a Big Bang than it began by God creating the world. So what happened before the Big Bang? What happened before God?

If one believes in a circular version of existence, I think the idea of quantum physics operating within the collective unconscious make more sense. Of course, as you implied, no one knows for sure and hopefully, one day, it will become "clearer and clearer."

Submitted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2021 at 3:50:30 PM

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Reply To John Miglio:

You are right, the initiating event, be it God or big bang, is an inescapable and, perhaps, necessary unknown.

Still the big bang concept encompasses unlimited potential to become and certainly allows for 'circular being the creative process. This is, in fact, what the literature states. Do you consider an uncreated, ever existent existence?

Don Scotten

Submitted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2021 at 7:30:11 PM

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Don,

The Dalai Lama and also certain areas of physics suggest that there may have been an infinite number of "big bangs." Buddhism states that karma and existence having been going on "since beginningless time."

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 12:09:07 PM

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Reply to Don Scotten:   New Content

If I'm interpreting you correctly, you're posing the question that if there is no beginning or no end to the circle of life and the universe is "uncreated," will it be forever existent? This gets a little tricky. When people would ask Einstein what the meaning of life is, he would usually reply that it is a mystery. So if you are asking the metaphysical question of the origin of "the circle", no one really knows.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 12:24:40 PM

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:

The channeled material tell all I currently value most states that the Big Bang resulted in 'Source' which is the unlimited potential to become. It further states that concurrent with the Big Bang were four universal laws which I 'see' as the organizing principles of our universal existence. Hence, everything manifest in our universe comports with an interplay of these principles (laws)and if anything did not comport with these we would experience that as simply not logical, not making sense.

So, to your point about more Big Bangs, more universal realities, I can see that and speculate that if we woke up in one of those it would not make any sense to us.

I find this fun and interesting contemplation.

Regards, Blair

Don Scotten

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 12:42:26 PM

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Don,

Yes, fun to contemplate (if you wish, see my responses to Philip on this thread and my article on the OEN page - "We are Giving Birth...").

My assessment would differ from yours in saying the Source gave birth to the Big Bang (and all physical manifestations), rather than the opposite.

Best,

Blair

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 12:55:55 PM

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Reply to Don Scotten:   New Content

Don,

I'm curious about what channeled material you are drawing upon.

From my (imperfect!) POV "eternity comes first" (that's a joke). It is the source of all - as expressed in the Tao Te Ching. It is creative beyond all measure. In fact it is so creative, it manifests "separateness' - including entire universes - when at another level it is infinite and One. Source, by definition, is the origin of all, forever. From this POV the Big Bang is a puny thing; yes, a source, but not the Source.

See, if you wish, Jean Gebser's The Ever-Present Origin, or his student Georg Feuerstein's book - Structures of Consciousness.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 3:38:07 PM

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:

+The chicken vs egg distinction does not loom significant. Regarding all physical manifestation coming into existence with the big bang I see it differently. However Source arrived it represented only the potential to become. The process of becoming is still and ever under way via the influence of the four universal laws (organizing principles). The understanding is that the first universal Law -the law of attraction- within the frame of unlimited potential to become and eternity produced a self aware aspect of source which was conscious of itself and could think and could intend. Therefore, long story short, everything existent is a thought first--ie, the creative process revealed.

Don Scotten

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 2:40:17 PM

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What I take from that double slit experiment and quantum mechanics is that all was a probability wave (of energy) and it takes an observer (consciousness) to give the probability wave some form. The second law of thermodynamics says energy can not be created or destroyed but only changed in form. If these scientific laws are fundamental then presumably in the beginning there existed an energy field without form. There also exists consciousness (an observer) that turned the probability wave of energy into form (creation). What science has not dealt with is whether consciousness is some type of energy or is it something other. I tend to think it is some form of energy since telekinesis experiments show it can exert a force on objects. I can imagine consciousness existing as a probability wave field before creation and then imagining some form. I also can imagine what scientists call the expansion that they say happened instantaneously prior to the early universe being set into motion. If I can imagine it then consciousness can imagine it and if consciousness made form then that early form could have been created/imagined before setting it all in motion.

That was fun.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 5:58:51 PM

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John,

"If you look at the universe in a pantheistic way, where there is no personal God and all things emanate from the same universal source, then quantum physics, which is the study of how the universe works at a subatomic level, would play an important role in understanding how the universal source would be comprised of subatomic particles that transcend space and time and contain the history and wisdom of the universe."

What I see that is apparently missing from your otherwise lucid piece, is inclusion of other planes of being - namely, the subtle, casual and non-dual. From this POV, as I understand it, the Self is not composed of sub-atomic particles at all. Rather, it is the Whole Enchilada.

I would also add that, as Edgar Morin has made clear, we tend to be deeply conditioned to think in "disjunctive," either/or terms; in this sense so the Self can be both personal and impersonal.

Submitted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2021 at 10:58:43 PM

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John F. Miglio

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:   New Content

I think you misunderstand one of the main points of my essay, Blair, i.e., the Self is the part of the collective unconscious that flows in and out of a person's being. And it IS composed of subatomic particles, the same way the collective unconscious is-- the same way everything is. This is the reality that solves the problem of dualism. In other words, quantum physics allows us to see that there is no substantive difference between the physical and the spiritual in terms of matter, and this creates the framework for an individual to know oneself in an authentic way.

If individuals can tap into the collective unconscious on a regular basis and become cognizant of the history and wisdom of the the universe, they would not be thinking in "disjunctive" terms. They would just "know" what the answers are. I think Philip mentioned this in an earlier post.

Submitted on Monday, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:04:58 PM

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John,

I am not evolved enough to know about some of this stuff with any certainty, so I'm left with the reading I've done, conclusions to which I've come, and general impressions.

You may have misunderstood the point I was making - vis-à-vis planes of being.

My sense is that these planes are different orders of existence. They are "above or beyond" the physical plane, which is made up of subatomic particles.

Now, the Dalai Lama has talked about the universe being made of "space particles" (also above or beyond me), but I would guess from his language that he is not talking about quarks.

I would also guess that the collective unconscious is not composed of subatomic particles, unless you are talking about the most gross level of existence, where electrical neural impulses pass between the brain recceptors.

I have found Ken Wilber's work helpful. I believe, but am not sure, that he would describe your assessment as a "category error."

I'm still wondering about the source of the channeled material upon which you are drawing.

Submitted on Monday, Nov 8, 2021 at 5:13:15 PM

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:

Blair: you asked about the channeled material I speak to and from. It is encompassed in three very small books which come at a very low cost. The man who agreed to channel this material also agreed not to aggrandize himself nor enrich himself, rather, simply inform. If interested you can google 'Handbook For A New Paradigm' or simply call 800-729-4131.--three very small books I refer to as the trilogy.

It is worth mentioning that mostly no one can read these books, I have decided this is because material that lies outside the consensus allowed within the reality bubble we are all born and live and die within is too difficult to consider as a possibility. I have examples of my own but none better than a friend who told me the book I gave him was nonsense, Five years later he contacted me and I told him to take another shot at the trilogy. He did and was elated. He purchased forty sets of the books to send to his friends and I said they would not be able to read them He said his friends were smart Six months later I asked and he said none responded.

The text is not complicated. Most read an entire page and realize it seemed to have no meaning--it is not about IQ. It is the most interesting phenomenon. If you pursue this and read or attempt to read these books I would like to hear from you.

Don Scotten

scotten6@gmail.com

Submitted on Monday, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:47:53 AM

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Don,

I will check the material out.

Do you have any specific responses to the detailed points I made, which apparently are at odds with yours?

Submitted on Monday, Nov 8, 2021 at 10:11:53 PM

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Reply to Don Scotten:   New Content

I downloaded the on-line Handbook For a New Paradigm pdf and read the introduction. I do believe that human kind and planet Earth are facing a dangerous time and that it will take a change in global consciousness to avert disaster/chaos. The source claims that what happens on Earth will have consequences beyond Earth. I was not aware of that possibility; but if true and if the source of this material are extraterrestrial then I can see why they are so interested in Earthlings.

Submitted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2021 at 10:11:56 AM

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Reply to Blair Gelbond ;

Regarding any meaningful differences between your thoughts and my perspective I think this. This interesting article and subsequent comments were mostly initially focused on how to see into what is existent using conceptual tools like quantum mechanics and pantheism and the collective unconscious. I am writing mostly about how existence became and further ever becomes manifest.

Synoptically, accepting the arrival of the chicken and the egg of Source which is unlimited potential to become-- with this last we were blessed within eternity with consciousness within Source. Consciousness is awareness and possesses the ability to think. Large (or other(?) aspects of consciousness can hold their intent to create out of source energy the shape and form of that thought, The thought construct takes place as a spiral in that a circle is less than that always returning to the starting point.

Finally, my perspective thinks that source would have remained unlimited potential to become unless the four universal laws accompanied Source into existence.. I believe the intelligence promoting this perspective, not being present at the big bang, believe they can look back from this now point and deduce the unfolding of the universal beginning.

So, Blair, how divergent are your best guesses from this?

Take care

Don Scottem

Submitted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2021 at 11:46:56 AM

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Scot,

Could you rephrase your argument, perhaps using more day-to-day language? There are parts of it I don't grasp. (Such as, but not limited to, "The thought construct takes place as a spiral in that a circle is less than that always returning to the starting point. I haven't yet, but will pursue the resource you shared.

My main point was that you seemed to be limiting yourself to the physical plane, whereas there apparently are other more subtle realms that may well have nothing to do with subatomic particles. Again, Ken Wilber seems to be a good source re- this stuff.

Submitted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2021 at 1:09:56 PM

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Reply to Philip Pease.

Regarding your comments associated with the intro to Handbook For A New Paradigm you really nailed it. The channeled material is contained in three little books and most of it focuses on how we planetary humans can help them move this planet back into the more normal positive flow. Positive and negative are truly meaningful influences and concepts here. Positive means creative and expansive and negative means destructive and contracting. If we do not grasp these things and do what we have to do to be deserving of the help offered to help us help our selves we are doomed to a thousand years of near impossible existence. No one will step forward to save us as that binds their Karma to ours.

Our perception is so controlled by our controllers it is difficult for me to keep trying........

Regards,

Don Scotten

Submitted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:56:50 PM

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Scot,

I wish to recommend Active Hope by Joanna Macy, Siriusdisclosure - Steven M. Greer, and "The Cosmic Hoax" on Youtube - also by Greer.

My sense is that some ET's are magnanimous enough that they are already serving us (and sometimes losing their lives in the process).

It is up to us to make things right, and also to spread the word about both our dire predicament and the solutions that already exist. Making "right effort" is called for - and this includes doing whatever we can to link up with more subtle forces of help.

Submitted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM

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Reply to Blair Gelbond:

I concede the limitations of my phrasing. I am trying to refrain from writing a book; Still most of what I have written here relates to the creation of what we experience as physical manifestation.

It is consciousness that creates physical manifestation ie rocks, rabbits, trees, hominids and solar systems and it is clearly consciousness that is the more fine, and subtle and somehow elusive to be easily understood by conscious beings like ourselves.

Jane Roberts, in her 'Seth Speaks; books channels a non physical personality who refers t himself as Seth. He further introduces an entity referred to as Seth Two who said it creates the venues on which we experience our existences. I assume this means planetary realities. What was very interesting to me was Seth Two stating that it did not understand 'our' emotions. This massive creative potential clearly did not suffer the plights of all suffering humans on this planet that produce the enormously important sophistication and complexity of that facet of consciousness. This last to point out the distinction between doing (creating if you will) and experiencing or knowing. I think I have gotten myself too deep into the weeds here--my apologies....

Don Scotten

Submitted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2021 at 2:57:04 PM

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Reply to Don Scotten:   New Content

Don,

My apologies. My computer was down for the past days. As I understand it, the physical plane of existence is minor compared to the subtle, causal and non-dual planes.

As I perhaps understand (a tiny bit of) the vastnesss of existence, there may be a number "creator gods," which create playing fields within the scope of the "Ever-Present Origin."

I happen to like the non-physical beings known as "Emmanuel" (channeled via books by Pat Rodegast) and Path of Empowerment - New Pleiadian Wisdom for a World in Chaos by Barbara Marciniak. These beings seem to deeply understand our emotions.

Submitted on Monday, Nov 15, 2021 at 12:31:49 PM

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