JH: The United States is the primary global capitalist power. You know, it has a tremendous global reach. American corporations, more than any others, are dependent on the smooth flow of capital coming from what's called the Third World, or the global south. And of course, you've got, with the neoliberalism in the last 50 years, you've got again, within the United States the 99 percent/one percent split. Even here there's a lot of agitation, and people are starting to get it, and so on. And so the United States has a tremendous stake in this. But the United States is locked into the old concept of war.
For example, the Pentagon just spent, I don't know, a trillion dollars on a new F-35: cutting edge stealth bomber. You know, a great toy. But it has no military use whatsoever. Even the generals say, "We don't need [it]." [Robert] Gates, when he was Secretary of Defense, tried to cancel it. But you know how Congress works; you have every congressional district putting together pieces of it. So it's jobs. But you're locked into these huge, expensive weapon systems. " So that's where Israel comes in.
And, of course, the United States is a tremendous, tremendous supporter of Israel. And I don't think it's just because of shared values. I think it's because Israel really delivers for the United States. It provides very sophisticated, high-tech components, for weapon systems. For example, this F-35, Israel couldn't produce that. But a lot of the cockpit, and the electronics and avionics, and the targeting systems are Israeli. And Israel becomes a kind of a surrogate for the United States, especially in countries where it's hard for America to work. You know, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, the parts of Africa that are rough.
You know, American business people are constrained because there are laws against bribes and giving bribes, and working with the mafias. These countries, a lot of them, are mafia-type countries. Israel doesn't have any of those constraints.
DB: For instance, if you went through Central America in the 1980's and you saw the new Salvadoran death squad army or the Guatemalan death squad, if you didn't look at the main insignia you would think they were wearing Israeli uniforms. They were certainly trained by Israelis.
JH: And they had their Uzis.
DB: And they had their Uzis.
JH: And they were armed. And don't forget Israel was a key part of the Contra-Iran scandal around the Nicaraguan conflict. Israel is really more than an agent of the United States. I think Israel is really providing that key strategic support in "Wars Amongst the People" in a way that the United States really isn't geared to doing. It's too big, the Pentagon is too big, the systems are too fancy. And Israel is supplying that middle- to lower-level type technology that's the most effective.
DB: What do you think of when you hear, "Is there a chance for peace?" Or the Israeli Prime Minister saying he's searching desperately for a partner for peace? What goes through your mind? How do you respond to that? Here in the U.S. press, in the New York Times, they simply quote it like stenographers.
JH: That's right. I think people are getting it. I don't want to say, "even Americans," but it's not easy for you guys, with your media. It's not too easy for you.
DB: It's real hard. You have to really look up something.
JH: Obama, for example, two days ago signed into law a bill giving Israel $40 billion in new American arms over a 10-year period, 2018-2028, and basically outlawing BDS, the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement that people are using like we did with South Africa, to put pressures on Israel, to end the occupation. Now it's American law, or it's going through, at least, to be American law, that the United States won't deal with companies or countries in Europe or other places that support BDS. So it's very actively supporting Israel. It isn't just some generalized thing. And as long as that happens, especially Congress, as long as Congress is in Israel's pocket, uncritically, we have to say here from Bernie Sanders to Trump..."
We're talking across the board Israel has nothing to worry about. And so it can pursue these interests of itself, in terms of keeping the occupation. That is why Israel doesn't ... there's no pressure on Israel to end the occupation. Because if it has the American Congress on its side, on the one hand, and Germany on its side in Europe, that keeps Europe in line. Nobody can touch us. We're home free. And they can insult Obama, and they can say terrible things about Kerry. " I mean, Netanyahu is a conservative Republican, and he says it.
You know, he can go to Congress, here he gets Republicans to invite him to the American Congress, both sessions of Congress, including the Democrats come. " And in his 20-minute talk, this is a number of months ago, his 20-minute talk against making the agreement with Iran. ...
So here he's going against the President and American government policy, a foreign head of state, invited by the American Congress including the President's own party, to speak out against an American government policy. And in his 20-minute talk he was given a standing ovation 42 times! The Israeli press was laughing. The Israeli press said it's like the North Korean parliament.
So it's hard, it's almost hard to explain the degree to which Israel has penetrated into American politics. It's almost like a domestic American issue, like apple pie, and that's what makes it very difficult. But I think that Americans aren't aware of how isolated they're becoming, in the world, because of this uncritical support for Israel. Because it isn't only supporting Israel against Palestinians. Palestinians have a special emblematic status among oppressed peoples in the world. Here's a little people that's standing up to Israel, the Israeli army, the American neo-colonialism, Europe, and it's resisting. It hasn't been defeated. So that gives hope to oppressed peoples.
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