MUELLER: That is correct.
LIEU: The fact that their orders by the president were not carried out, that is not a defense to obstruction of justice because a statute itself is quite dry. It says that as long as you endeavor or attempt to obstruct justice, that would also constitute a crime.
MUELLER: I'm not going to get into that at this juncture.
LIEU: OK. Thank you, and based on the evidence that we have heard today, I believe a reasonable person could conclude that at least three crimes of obstruction of justice by the president occurred. We're going to hear about two additional crimes. That would be the witnessed hamperings of Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort, and I yield back.
MUELLER: Well, the only thing I want to add is that I'm going through the elements with you do not mean or does not mean that I subscribe to the what you're trying to prove through those elements.
Objections that McGahn did not follow through on the order are irrelevant, since obstruction is defined as attempting to obstruct, which Trump did. Objections that the obstruction was to stop an investigation into collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign, which was not proved, are also irrelevant, because an accused person can attempt to obstruct an investigation even if the investigation's premise is never proved.
Texas Rep. Sheila Jackson's questioning underlined that obstruction can be committed even in noncriminal matters, for instance, to avoid personal embarrassment.
As for collusion, what Mueller found was that there was insufficient evidence of criminal conspiracy, which is a federal crime, to bring charges. He did not conclude that there was no criminal conspiracy, only that he could not prove one. Collusion is a much vaguer conception and is not a defined crime in the law. But Mueller did not rule out collusion, as The Washington Post's Philip Bump points out.
In fact, since "collusion" is not a legal term, it seems obvious that there was collusion. As Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., elicited from Mueller, the Russians extensively interfered in the 2016 election, and the Trump campaign team actively welcomed this interference in the election.
That would be a form of collusion.
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