David Swanson: Is this a bigger issue in people's minds in your district, or just in the rhetoric coming from your opponent then, say, the war in Iraq?
Tony Trupiano: I think that it is a big issue; whenever you have a depressed economy, and in human nature we want to place blame, right? So we can say will part of the reason that were having challenges is that illegal immigration is affecting those that are taking our jobs at a cheaper wage, and that's part of the problem, of course. We are a manufacturing-based state and we have not done as good a job as we need to in transition into a more diversified employment base; with that said, again, people need to place blame somewhere. They need to say, well, I can justify my belief because I know illegal immigrants are coming in and taking my jobs. True or not, that's the way they feel, so it's become quite a large issue, there is no question about that. I think it's incumbent upon all of us to take a look at and to try to validate the way people feel. The bottom line is whether it is illegals taking local jobs, which I don't think is as big a problem as some do, or it's just simply the fact that we haven't responded in the State of Michigan, anyway, to diversify how we employ people, and people are just very concerned about that issue. Are they concerned about the war? Yes, and I know we are going to talk about that in that in a bit, but I think one of the other things that I have certainly seen it is that there is almost a sense of denial, David, where people don't want to let go of the old belief patterns, and at some level I understand that, but people are trying to hang on to this traditional idea of what it meant to be employed in southeast Michigan, and I think that we can easily paint a picture; when people would people think of Detroit, they think of auto workers; of course they do, they should, but we've seen those jobs dwindle down to but a small percentage of what they once were, and I still think people are holding onto the idea that those jobs will come back. I'm not that optimistic. Do I think there will be more auto sector jobs in the future? Yes, but were never going to replace the jobs that were lost.
David Swanson: I guess one of the bigger issues around the country and on your web site and for people who are concerned about jobs in the auto industry and elsewhere is, of course, health care, and coming from the point of view of a progressive, of someone who works with Progressive Democrats of America, I'm looking at the positions on your web site, and then looking for where is single pair health care, because it looks like there are tax credits and patient bill of rights, and things that look like Band-Aids on a system that's going down the tubes, and I'm wondering where is Conyers bill for single pair health care? I'm wondering where are these clearcut progressive positions on Iraq? It looks like on your web site you have a position that is opposing cutting and running. It's not for getting out but it's not for staying in, and am wondering where is, "let's get out of this criminal war?"
David Swanson: Wonderful.
Tony Trupiano: Now, I'm not entirely married to the Conyers proposal yet, but going to tell you why. The truth is, I have not had time. I have read it, I have not had time to seriously explore it, I do know this: I'm a little concerned about the funding portion of the Conyers plan, but my focus right now, and I just don't have the time; here's the difference: if I were doing the radio show, I would've stopped, taken a couple of days, really look at it, call some of Conyers..... I just don't have time for that. I'm not opposed to the Conyers plan, I'm just not totally sold on it and am not riding the fence there; I have concerns about the funding part of it, so you understand upfront, I am for single pair health care. In the interim, though, there are things that we need to do that gets more and more people insured. The one thing that I can promise you is that in the next Congress, although single pair health care will become an issue, I do not believe it will be passed under a Republican president. I just don't see that happening. That doesn't mean that we don't start to do things immediately to make health care more accessible to people. It doesn't mean that we don't protect those that are seeking services, things like a patient bill of rights. I am adamantly opposed to things like health savings accounts and other Republican programs that just divert more money to the rich. I'm not for that at all. I think that were ready, and I think it's unfair, David, that we force employers to this company to bear the burden of health care. I've always felt that was wrong, and I think that corporate America, David, is finally ready to have a real dialogue about how we affect change and how we can take that burden off their backs. I think they are more ready than they have ever been, and I'm not just talking about the auto companies. I think any major legacy corporation in this country now is seriously ready to have a dialogue about how we move everybody into health care and how we take that burden away from them. I think we've never been at a more important time in our country to have that discussion, but we need to move beyond talking and we need to start figuring out a program that will work. What actually already have a program that works, it's called Medicare and Medicaid, and I think you know that historically, that was supposed to be the single pair health care program in this country. It didn't pan out the way we had hoped it would, but the system fortunately for all of us, works beautifully, and I think that Medicaid and Medicare the most successful programs of the US government in the history of this country. Now, with regard to the war in Iraq, I need to be absolutely clear. As you know, David, I was against the war from day one. You will be interested to know that on the candidate's forum on Thursday, and you are going to think this is really interesting, the question was asked in a way the way that it was, the war in Iraq and the war on terror....
David Swanson: Yeah.
Tony Trupiano: ...and my beginning response was, the first thing we need to do is separate the two, right? I was booed. I was booed. People don't think we need to separate the war in Iraq from the war on terror, but they are two very separate issues. To me, there is no question their two very separate issues, so here is my position on the war: we need to get out as quickly as possible. We need to do it responsibly. I believe that we have done what we need to do there. The transition is going to take time and I have advocated that by the end of 2007, that we are pulling out measurable and significant troops no later than the end of 2007; I'm not saying wait until the end, no later than. If what we're being told is true, and I have no reason to believe it is, but I will go with it for now, the Iraqi Army continues to grow, that they are becoming more and more self-sufficient, that the people don't want us there, that the government doesn't want us there; let's do everyone a favor and get the hell out.
David Swanson: But just get out substantially by the end of next year and still have a presence there?
Tony Trupiano: Well first of all, I'm against permanent bases, as I think you know. We don't need to have a presence there. We wanted to give the country democracy, David, and we've done that. We've done that. My concern is by just pulling everybody out come January 15, that we will create a situation there. Just last week, we saw that the debate over how many Iraqis have actually been killed, right?
David Swanson: Sure.
Tony Trupiano: And what is that number, anywhere from 30,000 to 655,000...
David Swanson: Well, the study that's been done with some serious skill and the usual scientific methods places it between 400,000 and 900,000, and their best number is around 650,000.
Tony Trupiano: Well I guess the reason that I am quiet here is I can't fathom that number, the loss of innocent life, I just can't fathom that. When I was on the radio, one day I was making arguments that there were hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis killed and was pretty prominently beat up on my conservative factor of my audience. The number matters; imagine that, almost a million people. It just seems so wrong, but the point that I really need to make here is we unfortunately, there are people who love the situation we're in in Iraq right now, which again, I can't fathom, but as we take a look at what's happened there, I do think we have a responsibility as Americans, not as Republicans are Democrats, to gradually pull out of there, to I guess lessen in whatever way my mind is considering this, to lessen more deaths or destruction of innocent Iraqis. Obviously, as we pull our people out, we're obviously less likely to lose more people, but if the Iraqi government is really ready, if they say that their army is really prepared, and Donald Rumsfeld is right on all this, why are we still there? Now, I'm sure you read last week that we are going to have this sustainable troop level through 2010.
David Swanson: Well, if Bush and Cheney have anything to say about it.
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