R.K.: Makes sense.
J.F.: So people haven't done it yet, so it's not known.
R.K.: So, I think there are a number of people who say they estimate about 1% of the population are psychopathic. In your book, you say 2%. Other people have said as many as 8% are sociopathic and I don't want to get into the difference between psychopath and sociopath unless you really want to, but your numbers are higher. Why are your numbers higher?
J.F.: Well, the numbers I have, 1% of females, 2% of males.
R.K.: Okay
J.F.: Are categorical psychopaths and that's derived first from the Robert Hare Canada study from thirty thousand people and he's expanded that and other people have come in with about the same numbers, pan-culturally. That is around the world, but I should say one thing, even though those numbers are stable, the percent of people with the warrior gene like MAOA various from culture to culture so the same gene variant does not have the same effect in different races. So that you got to watch out for because it's how the gene interacts with all the other genes within a person and the context their gender and their race so you got to watch for that. But any way to get back to the one issue, I would say that if one looks at categorical psychopaths, twenty eight and above, twenty eight to forty on the Hare, the 1 -- 2% is what Robert Hare and other people have come up with, but if you look at borderlines, I think people who score in the twenties and who can be dangerous and you can really run into in everyday life, I would say there's probably five, eight percent of those, but it depends on where you draw the edge on the bell curve or what you call a borderline. These are all what are called dimensionality types of traits. They're not categorical. You can pick the number wherever you want but I think in terms of dangerous people you might be looking at more at 5 -- 8% because they're not categorical psychopaths, but they're close.
R.K.: Okay. Now one of the things that got me going with this was a couple of years ago a friend of mine wrote a book and he theorized that it took a sociopath to run a Fortune 1000 company. Now I know in your book you say that you've never met a CEO of a big company, but you have met CEOs of smaller companies, but that's what got me started on it and I have been very interested in the effect because of, look at a guy like you. You have done very well for yourself and I am going to guess that if you had a choice of starting without the collection of characteristics you have, you would do it again.
J.F.: Absolutely. I am completely happy with the way I am and how it's turned out even though some of the things are a little annoying, each one of those characteristics and the disorders I had taught me about myself and about people so I thought they're quite, in the end very good.
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