Last week, when we spoke, you told me that there were good reasons you weren't initiating impeachment hearings at this time. (see video of me and Congressman Conyers here)
I tried to tell you that impeachment is a tool, and you turned to me with a wry, frankly, contagious grin, and asked me (with a who-the-hell-do-you-think-you're-talking-to-you-young-whippersnapper look) if I knew who had more experience with impeachment than anyone else in congress.
But then you went on to tell me how concerned you were with how we would look if impeachment failed. You mentioned how the Republicans ran against the Dems in '06 with the threat that the Dems would waste time and divide the country with impeachment.
And you and I both know that this is the talking point that the Dem leadership has actually borrowed from the Republicans-- that impeachment would take up all of congress's time to get other things done. But Mr. Conyers, you, being the most experienced member of congress, regarding impeachment, you know that this is not true. You know that when the Nixon and Agnew impeachment hearings were going on, congress got its other work done.
What I tried to tell you, when we spoke last week (readers see the youtube video here and the transcript of the conversation here) was that the members of congress are really not thinking through the concept of impeachment. They keep mistakenly focusing on the vote in the house to send Cheney, then Bush to the senate, and then, of the senate trial.
You know that that is not what happened with Agnew. It is not what happened with Nixon. It was not what happened with Alberto Gonzales. Now, ordinary hearings were enough to force Gonzales to resign. But as you know, since Bush is instructing his appointees to disobey subpoenas, and Mukasey is refusing to support the subpoenas, that the only recourse you have to get testimony is through impeachment hearings, because there is NO EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE in response to impeachment hearing subpoenas.
You know that since the Democrats control the house, there is no reason for a vote to send Cheney or Bush to Senate hearings that are doomed to fail. You know that you can hold hearings which force Bush appointees at all levels to testify, exposing criminal, duplicitous, horrific crimes and behaviors by Cheney, Bush and probably numerous other Right wingers. You know that, while there will absolutely be complaints and outcries from the Republicans, that they will be silenced as soon as the dirt, the massive river of sewage starts to spew from the testimonies of Bush's people.
And then, about those misplaced fears that the leaders in the house, perhaps fears that the Bluedog dems will be at risk if hearings are started-- those fears will be replaced with confidence and satisfaction that the hearings will be the insurance that the Democratic majority will not only be maintained, buy dramatically expanded.
You heard me right. The House Democratic leadership is totally misguided in the way they are conceptualizing the way impeachment would look. As I tried to convey to you last week, it's not about the hammer, it's the claw. Forget about the senate. Forget about a vote in the house. That vote, at least for Cheney, was already held-- to get the hearings started. The house needs to do the same thing for Bush, but with the focus on getting Cheney to resign first. We all know that Cheney will, as soon as he feels the heat, get a note from his doctor and take a medical resignation.
Then, Bush will have the opportunity to nail down his legacy. He can appoint a woman or black or Hispanic as vice president. Elizabeth Dole, former head of the Red Cross, comes to mind. Then,after watching the ocean of sewage reporting misbehaviors and crimes of Bush for enough time to realize that the future of the Republican party is at risk, the Senate Republican leadership will take "THE WALK" to the whitehouse to inform Bush that if he doesn't resign, they will support impeachment.
If you're lucky, this will happen near November. The Democrats will be hailed as having stood up for the constitution and setting justice on a positive path.
Worst case, the hearings continue after the elections. Even then, there is no need to ever push for a vote in the house, let alone hearings in the senate. History has shown that aggressive hearings, when there are real crimes, not blowjobs, lead to resignations. That is, and forgive me for lecturing you, Mr. Conyers, the way that impeachment works and has always worked, when there were real crimes. Rather than being the hammerhead that slams down on the criminals, it is the claw, prying the criminal president and vice president out, forcing him to extract himself.
I'm certain you know all of this. It seems what you need is some way to educate the leaders in congress so THEY get it and stop thinking of impeachment in terms of the senate vote.
My conversations with impeachment advocates has led me to believe that on solution is to commission polling regarding impeachment. But past polls have asked the simple question-- "Should Bush or Cheney be impeached?"
That's not the way to frame the polling. Instead, a series of questions should be asked. They would look something like this.
1) Do you believe that congress should hold hearings on the several hundred lies an independent organization reports that Bush and Cheney used to sell America the Iraq war, as well as violations of numerous laws?
Rob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is also published regularly on the Huffingtonpost.com. He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump speeches and debates. He recently retired as organizer of several conferences, including StoryCon, the Summit Meeting on the Art, Science and Application of Story and The Winter Brain Meeting on neurofeedback, biofeedback, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology. See more of his articles here and, older ones, here.
To learn more about me and OpEdNews.com, check out this article.
and there are Rob's quotes, here.
To Watch me on youtube, having a lively conversation with John Conyers, Chair of the House Judiciary committee, click here Now, wouldn't you like to see me on the political news shows, representing progressives. If so, tell your favorite shows to bring me on and refer them to this youtube video
My radio show, The Rob Kall Show, runs 9-10 PM EST Wednesday evenings, on AM 1360, WNJC and is archived on www.whiterosesociety.org Or listen to it streaming, live at either www.wnjc1360.com or here.
A few declarations.
-While I'm registered as a Democrat, I consider myself to be a dynamic critic of the Democratic party, just as, well, not quite as much, but almost as much as I am a critic of republicans.
-My articles express my personal opinion, not the opinion of this website.
Democratic Leaders are afraid to implicate themselves
It's the only reason that makes sense to me. If they were in some way complicate in these high crimes and misdemeanors, the last thing they would want to do is have open hearings on them. Perhaps Conyers is one of the accomplices. Perhaps he is shielding one or several of his colleges. The bottom line is at this point we only realistically have New Hampshire to hang our impeachment hopes on. Mr. Kall, I understand your deep respect for Mr. Conyers but I believe that rampant corruption on both sides of the isle will continue to stay his hand.
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erik mouse (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 106 comments)
on Friday, February 8, 2008 at 2:39:07 PM
After the 06' elections there were two clear messages, Iraq and accountability. Once it was clear that we were being stabbed in our backs by these so-called representatives of the people their approval rating went from mid-60's to single digits. Since we've been dealing with the realization that this government has only one use for us, to rob us of whatever we have left, our money, our liberties, our dignity.
I see no reason why we should petition them or believe anything they say. I don't believe Conyers is sincere. I really don't know why, only he knows that and the lame excuses he's given are just that. We know they're not the real reasons that he's not pursuing impeachment. One can only speculate that he's been threatened to a degree that not even the collective screaming of the people he's supposed to represent matters.
Considering what happened to Sen. Wellstone's family, the Anthrax sent to Leahy and Dashle and the untimely death of Kucinich's brother that this criminal organization we refer to as our government has sent the message, buck us and you and yours will suffer the consequences.
If you think is far-fetched, I don't. And the reason is I can only believe what I see. And what I see is a government that is doing exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to do. Instead of protecting us and providing basic services it's eroding these charges on every front. Protest and get placed in an area surrounded by barbed-wire ironically called a "Free Speech Zone", call the police as a victim of a crime and get arrested, tasered and strip-searched. Be victimized twice if you suffer from a natural disaster. Work all your life and have the IRS freeze your pension funds. Ask for an end to a war and have it be prolonged and increased. Ask for accountability and have them spit your face as they lie, destroy evidence and ignore the law.
No, I'm not looking for Conyers or anyone else in this totally corrupt government to do the right thing. I truly believe that time has past. And I have some idea of what's coming but whatever it is I am sure of this - it won't be for the benefit of the people.
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Mr M (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 1436 comments)
on Friday, February 8, 2008 at 2:41:18 PM
This may be your very best work yet. in my own opinion. Conyer's lack of action is puzzling after supporting impeachment publically. There are many things going on that we the people are not privy to, and may never become aware of either. Pity.
Again and again my departure from the Democratic Party seems the wise choice......and supporting the growth of third party politics the only realistic path open to progressives.
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ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments)
on Friday, February 8, 2008 at 3:16:58 PM
I agree with Erik.I think Bush / Cheney have used the justice dept to build a dirty laundry list to threaten anyone who would try impeachment. After I saw that Pelosi had been briefed on waterboarding I knew why she pulled impeachment off the table.
Lets clean house in 2008 and get a stronger independent ethics commission appointed for life like the Supreme Court to investigate the legislative, executive, and judicial branches.Until we have this old cliché the foxes are guarding the hen house is apropos.
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Michael Chavers (47 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 174 comments)
on Friday, February 8, 2008 at 3:24:32 PM
The GOP has always maintained itself in power with cult-like tactics. Endemically corrupt, it can only survive if it can "seduce" the opposition. Since 1900, the Democrats have never had the courage to confont the crooks for fearing of getting nailed themselves. The whole thing has all the elements of a play by Shakespeare or Robert Bolt. It will take a virtuous "knight" beyond compromise to win a battle with the GOP, someone who has nothing to lose by letting it all hang out!
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Len Hart (131 articles, 173 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 549 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 6:54:23 AM
....is a perfect example of this deviant behavior. That is why the GOP has also thrown in with the freaks of the Hal Lindsey Armageddon cult to build a block of zombies that will go goosestepping to their local polls on command from their precinct gauleiters.
It is really creepy talking to some of these people who still support the ruinous policies of the Bushreich but the good thing is that RINO's who were primarily drawn in to be part of a winning team are beginning to finally realize just how they were hoodwinked and just how fucked up that the dead enders really are.
I would recommend John Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience" for a good look at the personality traits that drive these authority worshipping hateful lemmings to the GOP. It's the Fuhrer princip right here in Der Heimat.
EE
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Ed Encho (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 56 diaries, 391 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 5:09:08 PM
Having trouble pulling up the 2nd page. I admire your courage Rob, rare indeed in these times. I look upon the congress like a fire company sworn to protect those under their care and those people support the fire department financially providing all their needs in return. This would be like the fire department showing up to a blazing house fire and claiming they might get hurt and there is no guarantee we could save anyone or the building so they just sit there and let it burn.
And those who would wait till the next election with these clowns that is looking more remote, just who the hell will enforce the ten year limit a president serves let alone that there is a need for any further elections. The house is burning down now!!!
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tjb (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 215 comments)
on Friday, February 8, 2008 at 4:08:58 PM
This entire criminal enterprise has in at least my own personal opinion been allowed to continue to feast on the carcass of American democracy largely due to the sense of entitlement and the bullying tactics of the Clintons. This must come to an end and the Democratic party needs to cut off the cancers of the DLC and the Clintonistas in order to move this country forward.
Impeachment is off the table because of the concept of triangulation without which the Iran Contra criminals like Elliot Abrams and their allies like Richard B. Cheney would be in jail. Thanks to Mr. Clinton and his shrewish spouse the wheels of justice were brought to a grinding halt when Daddy Bush's renegade operations were allowed to go unprosecuted.
That mistake has been made once and look where it has landed America: wars, repression, infamy, depression, bankruptcy, cynicism and ultimately tyranny. There is a pretty good fucking reason that the founders put the impeachment safeguard into the constitution.
Conyers and any remaining principled Dems need to somehow find the spine to use this weapon against corruption and despotism and to return the rule of law to the land.
Let Hillary's ambitions be damned for she would drag us all down to the pits of hell for the sake of them.
Just my two cents.
EE
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Ed Encho (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 56 diaries, 391 comments)
on Friday, February 8, 2008 at 6:32:19 PM
Bill should have rounded up the GOP crooks who conspired with the criminals in South America. It would have wiped out the CIA. Now, it would appear that we are stuck with them.
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Len Hart (131 articles, 173 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 549 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 6:58:28 AM
Clinton should have squashed them like the cockroaches that they are with the biggest stomp down being on Elliot Abrams, this guy has been a part of every bit of neocon usurpation of America that has occured since the 9/11 coup d'etat.
But why did Clinton let them off the hook? Something stinks.
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Ed Encho (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 56 diaries, 391 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 1:01:01 PM
but I fear it is the way you have memorised the right wing prattle about all things Clintonian being evil. I am far from a supporter of Bill, or Hillary for that matter, yet I understand, as apparently you do not, that the ills besetting this nation did not begin with the Clinton Presidency nor will they be rsolved with the defeat of Senator Clinton, politically speaking.
Just think, soon you will have Chelsea to kick around!...hee.
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ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments)
on Monday, February 11, 2008 at 7:12:09 AM
Rob, I think you nailed it. The claw is the way to go - this executive and his administration have been obstructing justice. Time to use the only tool at Congress's disposal.
Not holding my breathe though - this Congress has been bought and paid for.
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August Adams (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 442 comments)
on Friday, February 8, 2008 at 9:11:30 PM
..... the process through. There is no reason to be afraid to push impeachment. What would the Founding Fathers think about the fear to do what is right, and not going forward because of fearing for their own political lives. If substantial progress keeps being made on the 9/11 front, that could go a long way to forcing the issue of impeachment.
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David Watts (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 228 comments)
on Friday, February 8, 2008 at 10:49:02 PM
...is this, they're all corrupt. Let's look at it this way, let's say they do an impeachment hearing. AAAALLLLLL the heap of manure that would come out may, or should I say, "will come out" would be overwhelming. So much so it may cause riots in the streets with not half, maybe 3/4 of the government to persecuted. So who wants to go to jail? Think about it, the presidential line of succession may lead to who knows who to run our government - or better yet do they truly know what to do? This administration has proven they are inept and incompetent to run a country - what do you think they're cronies will do (Brownie, Gonzo, etc.)
And do you think Nancy being elected to be the Speaker of the House was an accident?
Talk about riots in the streets - it would lead to total anarchy if the questions are to lead where they may! I am only forced to believe this is a mix of plutocracy, crypto-fascism and some other things I'm sure you can figure out, just to hide what's really behind the curtain.
And why should the MSM report anything -- they're making money off of all this with their hands tied into this too! The military media corporate industrial complex is setting all this up for the one world government and nothing that is happening now, or in the future isn't and wasn't without being planned long time ago.
Our country will look more like Brazil, where there is small percentage of the uber-rich, maybe a 20% middle class and the rest of society living like cockroaches.
Our Branches of Government using the corporations and vis-a-vis are holding everybody else hostage to line their pockets because they're protected from what may be the inevitable (with all things being consistent). So the rules are get right or get left - literally and virtually!
I hate to be so glum about all of this, but our sovereignty is slowly decaying right before our eyes to only invite a North American Union to form because our democracy and republic died from within its own government.
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unau2k (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 8 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 3:08:12 AM
They are afraid to recieve anthrax letters, have family members shot,Or maybe it's a tactic to wait untill impeachment becomes too long a process to work.One thing is certain 80% of Americans want the war to end,I do not see it ending,As such neither party is responsive to the people.The people have now become the servants.
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dave stanley (5 articles, 1 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 286 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 3:11:32 AM
Quote: "...there is NO EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE in response to impeachment hearing subpoenas."
Is this true? I'm not a constitutional law expert, so I'm not sure. But you can bet this administration will claim executive privilege even if there is no legal precedent for such, or even if there is precedent stating the opposite. These guys won't start rolling over on one another just because John Conyers starts waiving impeachment papers around. They'll circle the wagons instead.
That would guarantee a long, hard fight to try to prove the grounds for impeachment. The Republicans would have little trouble dragging the process out until the next election, and I doubt enough dirt would have come forward to really do any serious damage to the Republican electoral chances. In fact, if there is ever a way to solidify the GOP's now fractured base, this is it. Expect John McCain to become George W. Bush's biggest defender on the stump, because that's exactly what would happen.
Trying to pry out information is a losing tactic. It won't work. I think John Conyers is smart enough to understand that fact. Impeachment is an all-or-nothing tactic. The claw of trying to slowly extract information is fallacious. Only the hammer of claiming G.W. led the nation to war under false pretenses and whatever supporting evidence Conyers has accumulated over the years in support of that charge can be effective.
But it's a gamble, and a big one at that -- all or nothing. And it's one that I don't think the Demcocrats are willing to take. Their political base is energized. The Republicans are demoralized. A failed impeachment can reverse that eqation in a hurry. I don't think the Dems want to take that risk and insert another Republican in the White House when they can have Hillary there instead whom, ironically, will do nothing but cover up the many crimes of the Bush Administration because the Clinton's and the Bush's work hand-in-glove. Only the naive and willfully stupid can fail to see that.
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Sam Adams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 81 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 4:37:08 AM
I confirmed that with Both Elizabeth Holtzman and John Conyers.
I'd love to see McCain backing Bush/Cheney refusing impeachment hearing subpoenas. I can hear him shouting as he flushes down the toilet with Bush/Cheney.
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Rob Kall (808 articles, 3923 quicklinks, 332 diaries, 1703 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 5:46:14 AM
I was thinking perhaps Sam had a point about executive privilege being arguable.
I suspected that the SCOTUS would resolve any dispute between Congress pursuing impeachment and the executive trying to slow it down using executive privilege very quickly if it needed too. I'd imagine such an issue would have very high priority.
Its difficult to see how impeachment proceedings could occur (and the Constitution makes clear that impeachment is definately supposed to be able to occur under some circumstances whereas executive privilege is not explicitly mentioned) if executive privilege was allowed to thwart the discovery process.
Good discussion.
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Brett Paatsch (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 22 diaries, 1010 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 7:35:38 AM
Wexler on executive privilege in impeachment hearings
"In an impeachment hearing, the administration does not have the power of executive privilege," Wexler said, noting that the secret tapes that helped bring down President Richard Nixon did not surface until the House Judiciary Committee began impeachment hearings."
this shoot out at the OK corrall has been anticpated............I've been reading around where Marshall Law exercises are in progress in several areas........I'm sure Dubya and the Hachet Man won't go down easy.............that's the kind of people we are dealing with...........
In saying that, I hope Conyers and the rest have a party strong enough to overcome all of the US Marines and Blackwater Mersenaries guarding the White House doors...........cause I don't see Bushco going out any way but kicking..............
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Ernest (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 132 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 7:54:23 AM
I'm so tired of the argument that it will make them look bad
Nothing could make the Democrats look worse than letting these criminals go unchallenged. I don't understand why they don't see it. I'm to the point where I think we should impeach them, too, for being complicit in their crimes.
We have a WAR CRIMINAL in the White House! Every single congressperson is in violation of their oath of office. They have no choice but to impeach and I don't understand why they don't see that. If they're being blackmailed, they need to impeach anyway and deal with the consequences. At some point, someone has to have the courage to do the right thing.
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Morgaine Swann (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 17 comments)
on Saturday, February 9, 2008 at 9:26:06 AM
