How about bringing GOD back into society, not just as something we trust in money, but as part of what made this country so great?

"God" had nothing to do with making this country great. However, the religious right -- and there quest for a "Christian society" -- has had everything to do with the implementation of and the current, on-going destruction of our once great, secular-based nation.

We need less of - actually, none of "God" in our society and more reason, rationality and common sense - not superstition, dogma, and the credence that mystical beings ostensibly watch over us with a ubiquitous eye from the supposed ether that charlatans and demagogues can use to exploit and subjugate the blind and misguided.

Placing "God" at the front of the table as the cure to "immorality" is akin to placing Poseidon in charge of the Hurricane center to watch over and warn us of threats from the sea. Both are steep in questionable judgment and deep in foolish dogma.

Man has created many gods that befitted him and then destroyed those same gods; casting these once inerrant deities onto the scrap heap of history when "God" no longer proved useful or sustainable.

Whether it is Islam, Christianity, Communism or imaginary alien invasions, human beings can always be brought to rally about a conflict-ridden cause with the simple tools of a symbolic flag and a book of faith.

It's time for faith to be forgotten as ancient lore and the "movement of raison d'être" to become the new bedrock or human morality and decency.

by Frank J. Ranelli (66 articles, 143 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 383 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 6:03:16 PM

The basis of what God represents, Love, Peace and so on is the basis for any moral and civilized society.  The lack of it is what has destroyed our nation.  While I agree with you about religion and the paths that the "right" have taken, those are mans choices to warp and twist trligion into fighting words.

I can tell you there is a God from personal experience.  Hope you don't realize that fact when you are standing before him.

 

by Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 7:29:23 PM

MM,

 

I cannot stand before that which I do not accept, nor can you provide any evidence to the contrary. If you could, then it would not be called “faith”, but instead “fact.” Fact is, love, peace and civility are not requisite or found in only “believers.” As a humanist and an atheist, I am still capable of – and demonstrate daily – that these traits are human qualities that are very achievable without piety or divinity.

 

Peace.

 

Frank J. Ranelli, Associate Editor

by Frank J. Ranelli (66 articles, 143 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 383 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 11:33:10 PM

KG, 

 

However profound, magical, and mystical your eloquence about the universe is written; it still offers no proof, no empirical evidence, and lacks sound logic – only fluency of speech, nothing more. The bulk of your supernatural ruminations about the universe is spurious and lacks any application of reliable science.

However, I concur that humans are “barely awake”, though not barely awake about God. Most of us are sleepwalking in denial through an age of enlightened science that provides us with answers grounded in reason and facts, not blind faith in dubious deities in the sky.

by Frank J. Ranelli (66 articles, 143 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 383 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 11:22:08 PM

Omigawd, MM, lord knows I don't want to argue with you, because you've written an excellent piece, and I crack you up.

But a few magic words about god brings to mind a thousand, million questions starting with...which god should we bring back into our culture/society?  

The Christian god? The Muslim god?  The Jewish god with the unpronouncable name, because his name is not to be spoken?  Flora? Loki?  Odin? Thor? Minerva? Zeus? Hera? Luna? Isis? Osiris? Quetzalcoatl?

Poseidon might be most appropriate, because rumor has it that we all sprang from the primordial ooze at the bottom of the sea in and around the volcanic smokers.

Neat place to come from.  It's gorgeous down there.  Fascinating tube worms that look more like gorgeous flowers than something you'd bait a hook with, or slitherings things that plow up the earth to make planting easier.  It's full of an infinite number of creatures living in harmony when they aren't eating each other for dinner. 

Maybe Pandora would be appropriate, because whenever god is invoked all kinds of trouble springs up.

How about Niobe?  We all come into the world crying.   

The list goes on forever.  How to choose?  Which to choose?  I feel like a grown-up in a do-nut shop.

Inevitably god and religion go hand and foot-in-mouth together, which raises even more questions and woes.

I've always favored the golden rule god. 

SS 

 

by Sandy Sand (198 articles, 0 quicklinks, 227 diaries, 1548 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 8:46:03 PM

I beleive that God is all those names that have permeated the worlds religions.  It is only man that divides his "God" into a box.

 

by Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 9:55:44 PM

OH GOD is my favorate...but now that I am single, dont hear that one much...LOL

by Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 10:01:39 PM

when I hear that phrase in that certain situation you are implying, of "the Sanctus"..."blessed is he who 'comes' in the name of the Lord"!

by Robert Sargent (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 26 diaries, 318 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 12:46:21 AM

MM / RS

Oooooooooooo!

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Oh, god!  Oh, god!  Oh, god!

YES!

SS

Laughed 'til I cried.  I "raise" my cup of "Morning" coffee to both of you.

by Sandy Sand (198 articles, 0 quicklinks, 227 diaries, 1548 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 7:15:33 AM

I always blow the punch lines. I meant "I always think of 'The Sanctus'"

by Robert Sargent (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 26 diaries, 318 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 10:30:14 AM

I guess I put it in the subject. I'm so confusled now! Too bad you can't delete comments.

by Robert Sargent (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 26 diaries, 318 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 10:38:16 AM

Your astute observation about “which god” is most appropriate and well said. Therefore, you might also enjoy reading another essay of mine, One Nation Under "Whose God is it Anyway?"

by Frank J. Ranelli (66 articles, 143 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 383 comments) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 11:07:23 PM

right here in Salt Lake City! In fact, give me your address and I'll send a couple of nice dressed missionaries--there is only one kind of missionary, you know--to come banging on your door.

Oh, dang! I forgot the Jehovah Witnesses!

by Daniel Geery (26 articles, 95 quicklinks, 126 diaries, 912 comments [27 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 9:28:45 AM

We need direct voting, liars courts, and the elimination of the rich.

by John Hanks (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1760 comments [39 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 9:19:49 PM

...ashamed to be identified with the bullet-heads that supported the fascists. But the shame only comes form "looking" bad... therefore "call myself," ashamed of your "image," not any kind of change of heart or mind. Example:

It is time to tell the Iraq People good luck and if terrorists camps start forming we will be there to shove a missile down its throat no questions asked and by the way you owe the US $500 Billion (USD) in war reparations that we will TAKE in oil.

 

You still believe in "terrorists." You want people who were never any threat to you whatsoever to "pay" for the feel-good footbal-game entertainment YOU endorsed because iyou thought t made you look "tough" and "patriotic." Similar to the way you beat the "god" drum because you think it makes you look ethical. To your credit, sir, you are far ahead of your me-first goodie-goodie grab-bag "fellow travelers." Why?

Because you might be capable of feeling shame.

Congratulations.

 

 

by waldopaper (15 articles, 3 quicklinks, 34 diaries, 609 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 12:37:06 AM

I want to correct something...I don't beat the God drum.  Like most spritual people in this nation, I have realized that our spritual "leaders" have lead the flock astray from "the word".  Money and power tend to do that.  Sound like an administration we know?

Also, I have traveled the middle east.  They are no more terrorists than you and I are.  All they want to do is feed thier familys and enjoy life.  Next thing you know, the dinner table expodes and your family is dead and you get the pleasure of holding them in your arms.  You would become a terrorist to.  Want proof......

After 911 how many innocent Muslim Americans were attacked?  Look up the stories.

We are NO BETTER because we are American, we just think we are!

The true only solution to the "worlds" problems is to talk and compromise.  Otherwise might as well just take on the whole world.  Hitlter tried it, how did that work out for him?

by Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 8:17:19 AM

All this talk about God took us right of the mark now didn't it.

Man's misplaced belief in something that can't be proven should stand as a monument to his stupidity and downfall. But, again, that's beside the point when it comes to good sound government. Because basically government should be about providing security, health care, education and providing for those that can't take care of themselves, I'd be happy with sound competent civil servants and managers. God, can then, for all that I care take care of the rest and leave me the hell alone - along with the rest of the God fearing people.

And if we want this government to start acting like one it's going to take more than letter writing, phone calls and visiting offices, not unless we take pitch-forks, torches and some rope when we do. This so-called government is way beyond trying to reform it through polite normal channels. As Thomas Jefferson said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure." Well, it's way past time we stood-up to the tyrants, because if we don't, I can tell you this for certain, your pen is inadequate against Blackwater's mercenaries and your God seems to be busy talking to the wrong people.

So, excuse me, I feel for your disillusionment with our current state, and my only wonder is what it took you so long to see the light, but I'm not impressed with your anger or your Melba-toast method of dealing with it. It's not called "a call to pens", it's called " a call to arms" and it's way past due.

 

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 1:05:55 AM

hey, what if the "TURRORISTS" believe in "god," too? i mean, they do, right? i mean...if all the names of god are man's doing, and there is only one, what about the fact that our wars and theirs are both justified by this same "god"? if that's the case, maybe he wants us all to die! wow. revelation. i'm feeling real divine suddenly. 

by Nezua (42 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 93 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 2:46:44 AM

What I have found interesting with this article is that first, it did not format right...lol...but mainly that there are many REAL problems that are touched on in the article and the ONLY one discussed in detail was GOD.

I am a spritual person who was brought up cathloic, and like most have seen that our leaders are more concerned with the collection plate than the state of the world.  They have strayed, and therefore thier flocks have strayed from what was the mission.

The excuse we use to fight in the world, on both sides, is religion in thinking that my God is better than thier God.  Truth is God is God, not your God, not thier God, but all of humanity's God.  What that means to each of us is up to the individual, that is the beauty of CHOICE.  But fighting like to school children because of God is hypocritical of everyone.

Love and understanding does not kill children, bomb and bullets do.  Compassion does not let people starve when we have the means to feed them, greed does.  Injustice can not be found when morals and ethics are standing upright.  When the qualitys of "God" are in a society, the things the word God stands for permeate the society.  When those qualitys are not present, you have what we have now, people are more worried that they may have to live under a flag that represents "God" though acts of compassion and understanding, than a flag that supports through thier direct actions or failure to act, children murdered, money stolen, lies are told as truths and power and greed are goals to be gotten at any cost.  This is not what makes a country great. 

Wealth and power do not make a country great.  Lie and courrption do not make a country great.  What makes a county great is the people and if those people as a whole would you invite into your home.  As a nation, nobody wants us at the dinner table anymore.

by Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 8:57:30 AM

Mr. Morris, you made my day. I have been shouting this at the top of my pen for four years on  Opednews. I love what you say.

 

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 9:09:30 AM

I hope that as a nation we can get this message to our Diebold Elected leadersa and change our course.

by Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 9:15:11 AM

"I hope that as a nation we can get this message to our Diebold Elected leaders and change our course."

I see, you have for some reason a belief that just because you deliver "this message" (whatever the "message" is) and all of a sudden these Diebold Elected leaders are going to do what? See the light? Fall on their knees and beg forgiveness? Suddenly start doing the right thing because of what you've written or because you knocked on their door and told them politely what they're doing wrong?

Let me tell you what will happen. These Diebold elected officials will ignore you and if you push the issue they'll have you tasered and arrested, as they show mild annoyance at you bothering them.

These people are crooks. You might as well write a letter to the leader of your local crack dealer and ask him to stop dealing crack and get a job serving humanity for all the good it will do. Or better yet, tell them to talk to that God you have in you heart, head, sky, church or where ever it is your God yields his power from and sit back and watch the miracle proceed.

I don't know what gated, white-bread community you live in but your education into what it's going to take to change this country is going to be a real hard one.  

These Diebold elected leaders couldn't care less about you, your beliefs, or your God. It's going to take a lot more than your hurt feelings, rage and your pen to have these "Deibold elected leaders" change - because they're not going to change, they don't need "change" - they need to be imprisoned or hanged!

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 11:38:19 AM

...god is a hot-button issue.  We shouldn't mention his name -- in vain or otherwise -- if we don't want it to eclipse all the other more-than-valid points.

Glad you mentioned the computer glitch thing.  I practically had to break my editor's fingers not to say something.

The best writers on this site seem to have slept through Paragraphing-101 class.  As James Carville would say: Keep 'em short, stupid.

Nothing loses a reader faster than run-on graphs.  Happily, the glitch didn't stop me from reading the piece, but expect to get a bill from my oculist, because I went totally cross-eyed, and although I'm not seeing double any longer, I am seeing one-and-a-half.

Excuse me while I trip down all those extra stairs to reheat this very cold cup of coffee.  Wonder how many microwave ovens strang up over night.

 

by Sandy Sand (198 articles, 0 quicklinks, 227 diaries, 1548 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 9:21:48 AM

KG,

I only have all the answers figured out for me. What you perceive as perhaps arrogance is merely confidence in my own moorings to the world around me. Those that choose to seek out rationality and pure science – over dubious claims of virgin births, rising from the dead, magical tales of suspect gods and spirits, et al. – will seek their own answers when they leave behind blind faith in search of pragmatic and real-world answers.

If you chose to believe in supernatural deities, then that is your prerogative. However, proselytizing to other about how "God made this country great" will only incense, not galvanize people. Great men, not unsubstantiated dogma, are what made America great.

There is an impetus behind the huge backlash of what I will term as "Christian Dominionists" that wish to move our country into and under a Christian, theocratic state of arbitrary and a false set of canonical superlatives. Morality is not synonymous with God, or any other god. Morality comes from within a person, grounded in their character and their integrity, not a system of supernatural beliefs.

As far as "[suggesting] you know very little of God", it solely depends on what your definition of "knowing God" means. If you are referring to the study of religion, then I am, perhaps to your dismay, highly informed and classically educated on the subject of Theology. If you are referring to the more arcane and esoteric beliefs in an inerrant, monotheistic God, then you would be correct only in the assumption that I do not find comfort or hope in that which is fabricated conjecture.

BTW, "typical liberal" is a feeble attempt at collectivism and branding. The "typical liberal" is a conservative myth. We are all different and unique. However, most, if not all, do apply independent thinking and critical thought rather than blind obedience and acceptance without scrutiny.

Peace.

Frank J Ranelli, Associate Editor

by Frank J. Ranelli (66 articles, 143 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 383 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 12:44:17 PM

MM, Then, at least in part, we largely agree. However, your presumed continuing adherence does beg the question, "Why does the flock still follow the leaders that lead them astray in the beginning?" Is a belief in a flawed faith, and those that propagate it, that intractable?

by Frank J. Ranelli (66 articles, 143 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 383 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 12:51:19 PM

It took me several years to able to say, with pride, I am an athiest.  It took a long time to rid myself of all the guilt religion heaps on you.  

This god talk reminded me of a silly comment my neighbor made to me.  I love animals, peace, fairness, all the so called 'nice' things about humans. 

 Well, neighbor says to me: "you are so nice and caring you should hurry up and find god, because if you don't ,  god will make you burn in hell forever when you die."

Phew!  She was not happy when I told her,  why  would I ever want to find some madman, never mind idolize him, when he will make someone who is 'nice and kind' burn in hell forever just because I don't believe in him.  That is one mean cruel crazy guy you follow.

She said, oh god, how can you say that.  Who do you think made all the animals you love so much? Well, if he made all the animals, your nice loving god, why did he make fleas?   She was not happy, my neighbor.

I know I am not a skilled or gifted writer as those who have  commented here..but I just could not resist.  

 I am an old senior now, and have watched religion tear this world apart.  If god were  a fact, then this would not be happening, for a kind loving God would not create people who would do this.  Sorry, but the reality is that there is no god.  Only us, and those that rule in the name of god, are most ungodly of them all.  

peace 

 

by joyce (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 73 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 1:30:21 PM

As I read the article, it eventually made me think of noise or what becomes lost in noise from other noise. Not that the article is not concerned, has points or that the author is not frustrated,  he is. The length of the article, all the subjects brought up, not to mention, the take your choice of what to think about and respond to.

It is what I have come to call the diversion of NOISE of which our country has become an expert in. We have gone so far to classify it as entertainment, the United States Of Entertainment. 

This is not to degrade the article or anyone's concerns but what I've come to find is I have to spend a great deal of time filtering the levels of noise to even figure out what the problem is. This first step to finding a solution.

We are trying to deal with a country, a society that is trying to live its future by throwing out, forgetting how we used to do things in our past.

Global warming? Of course. It's been warming, thank God (which I will come to that point next) for the last 15,000 years or so. And,  there have been a couple of mini ice ages thrown in the last few hundred years. Is this caused by people? Two very different and important questions.

Now as for God or of religions in general, they generally decided to join the political process a few decades ago. For some reason the phrase, if you can't beat em, join em comes to mind here or two wrongs will make it right or no matter what we do or how we do it, "we" are making it better.

The "church" decided not be the alternative, the option, their own standard and the idea came to mind if we just had more people, more members a bigger church and don't say anything about responsibility, standards, values that would hinder us because by joining the problem, being bigger will then make things better. MMMM looks like several problems and questions here.

Or at least that's the NOISE.

Again, not saying religion has not been benefiticial because I know in areas it has.

As for the children, well we all know anything and everything now being done is for the children. Of the children, by the children and for the children trumps everything.

At least that is the NOISE.  Especially covering the the massive cost and damage of the current cash cow discovered by the states, courts and legal profession regarding marriage, divorce, and all the support machinery to run all of it because of its all for "the children".

Again, not to say the future of our children is not important. I have two.

When I see a state proscutor that is willing to put three men in prison for 30 years by tampering with evidence, false statements and without the spending million of dollars by their familys, would have probably gotten away it, maybe I should add, again because it probably wasn't the first time he had done this. Is this "law enforcer"  out on bail or in jail awaiting trial?  Well, maybe he's had enough punishment being disbarred and a few hundred of dollars fine. After all he was just doing his job or he was taking care of his children. What was his job again?

For the children, his children, who's children and what access to the courts do most people have, for the children?

For the most part I see in this article very dedicated, concern of what most of us are dealing with. Everyday, not being able to live without all the NOISE.

When trying to find a solution, one has to know the problem. One thing to look at is what has been changed in the production line if anything? Was it working before and its not working now? Simple with regards to all the problems all of us are trying to deal with? Not in the United States of "Entertainment"!

 Should we advance in technology, new ways to progress? Of course but when we finally forget how we got here, standards, doing the math, the lessons of history, the basics then we are several levels removed from ever finding the real solution. Hey forgetabout it!

I am watching a country commit suicide and "going out of business". A country that has lost its soul (or freedom if you like) with an attitude of well, there really isn't any real right or wrong, good or bad way to do things and that money, will fix anything. It's the new math. I'm just trying to do my job. It's different now.

Well when you start hearing "it's different this time" learn, your just getting close to finding out it's not!

Unless your one that is benefiting from people spending their time dealing and talking about the noise.

 

by DRSANGLE (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 1:35:02 PM

He just said on CNN that he is not shamed to be a Republican.  Anyway.....

I think you brought up a point that is a non-truth about God.

When things go wrong we think we should just pray and everything should work out.  That is not the way things work.  It is not his fault we are at war but we want think he should never let it happen.

God gave us free will and choice without question.  The choices we have made have no involvement by God and the whole purpose of this "experiment" is that can we and are we capable of getting this right or will we fail destroying the "experiment".

This attituitude of blaming someone for our own decisions is why America and the world is where it is at.  We all need to take responsibility for our actions and admit our faults.

by Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 at 6:45:58 PM