Impeachment is for the country not the soul of the President

Is Impeachment a bad thing, for the sitting President or a good thing?

Article II, Section 4 of the US Constitution says:

"The President. Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".

Treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors are bad things Dom.  President Bush almost certainly wouldn't want them as his legacy.  He doesn't say he tortures he says, Prince fashion, that what was formerly known as torture is not torture. So he doesn't torture.  

Christian or not, I'd don't think we are going to see the President stand up AA style and say "Hi I'm George and I'm a torturer and I broke my oath of office by invading a UN member nation."

Impeachment is for the good of the country and the health of the body politic not the good of the President.

by Brett Paatsch (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 22 diaries, 1010 comments) on Monday, February 25, 2008 at 8:53:41 PM
 

I have to Disagree Brett.

I have to disagree with you on this Brett. Just because the Constitution says its bad does not make it correct. The Constitution also says people have the right to bear arms, and the Constution thinks that's good, and I think that's bad.

There are people who interpret the Constitution differently, and I think if the President came forward he should be held in a different light than how the Constitution says it is. A President that would say that in my earnest opinion would be a great man, and a man that knows that life is truely not just aspects of black and white, and has a tough job to do.

He has to protect American security, and that entails details that perhaps no one could ever possibly envisioned. If they use torture they believe violence will stop, because people will be afraid to be tortured. While it worked, he is subject to breaking the laws of the Constitution. How were they to know how soldiers do battle, or how they aim their weapons?

The President is the engineer of the surgical strikes the military is capable of providing but for some reason innocent people were wiped out, is his fault? He shares partial blame. He needs to accept his role in this, and by coming forward it would show the type of guy he is down deep in his character.

Whatever the Constitution says, its interpretation is subject to the times, of understanding. Impeachment in my opinion is not only good for the country, but also good for President. I think the founding fathers really had no idea to the aspects of Impeachment's positive side to the law in concern to the President and his responsibilities.

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Monday, February 25, 2008 at 10:52:15 PM
 

If the President wanted to apologise and resign then he can

but that process doesn't require that the President be impeached.

Resignation for any reason makes impeachment unnecessary.    

Impeachment is specifically for those circumstances where a President does not want to resign and where the people (acting through their representatives) think that it is still in the interests of the country that he or she does not retain the powers of the office for his full term because he has done "bad" things. 

"Bad" things like (a) treason, (b) bribery, or (c) other high crimes or misdemeanors.   

There really isn't much room to argue that treason or bribery or other high crimes aren't "bad" things. 

I suspect you are really appealing to Bush to resign for what you think would be his own good because it would be for the good of the country.  If that is so then I think he will disagree with you about what is good. 

If I've missed your meaning, I apologise.  

by Brett Paatsch (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 22 diaries, 1010 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 12:00:54 AM
 

Let me Explain Brett.

You don't get my meaning Brett. Resigning means to giveup and quit, and with the hope no prosecution is rendered. It means standing aside, to allow a new process to proceed, which would be the replacement with Dick Cheney or if he also resigns the Speak of the House.

This in my opinion does nothing about recognizing his errors. Resigning also means he thinks he did a good job and wants to spend more time with his family, an excuse many from his appointments, bid when they left him.

I am talking about coming forward and saying from the Presidents lips there needs to be an Impeachment for the good of the country and for the good of me and my staff.  He would put forth his honest self evaluation and honestly speak from  the heart where he sees why people feel and think the way they do in concern to what happened. He can not deny that innocent people died in Iraq. He can not deny that torture happened on his watch. He can not deny that wire tapping occured on his watch, despite his decision, it is necessary for the security of the country. In all honesty I don't see how he can wiretap the entire United States but I don't want to go off topic here.

I think Impeachment should be used by sitting Presidents as a gauge to their own self appraisal process. Better to hear from the patient that he feels ill and not at ease, than to have a doctor break the news, and then the patient becomes so remorse that they never want to see the doctor again....as if he was some quack practioner.

How can they go on with the charade? How can they believe that during their own parties watch they have seen President after President from Truman on down caught lying in the process and did nothing, especially when in concern to people being killed, and they had the audacity to file Impeachment and waste millions of tax dollars on President Clinton over a sex issue that had nothing to do with the countries National Security, or other related matters of legislative Importance. It is juvenile, they have failed. They need to admit it file Impeachment to set the record straight and allow themselves and the nation to move forward. They have fallen down, now do the right thing and get back up.

His act I guarantee will be the boldest move in US political history. It will join and sew up the divide in the USA. The Republican party will be reborn, and they will be hailed as the hero's in this Historical Story and go down not as crooked felons, but be revered as good men doing their best for American interest. He must state he wants the conviction, so Impeachment is a success. There being is the difference of just simply resigning.

George Bush's act will make him the first President to be Impeached and probably the last in US history, who knows. But the Impeachment will not be a sour happenstance. It will be a welcomed agenda in that although bad was committed, at least the accused is the one who set the Impeachment process in motion. There will be I think much celebration and fanfare, as if another fourth of July, or also known as Impeachment Day Celebration.

We can not go on blaming ourselves for no oversight to the issue and the American Story. Impeachment needs to be levied and celebrated. Men who meant good to the country ended up doing bad without consequences is our major probelm. Impeachment settles that issue.

How they are sentenced, such as house arrest, or serving in a secure location, is up to the courts. No one has ever thought of how an Impeached Convicted President would serve his time. It has never been done. But if the President is also in charge of that aspect at least we know he is keen to understanding that he needs to show exoneration, and acts of forgiveness for the bad that happened on his watch.

All politicans who run for President accept this before running for office. They need to be honest agents and servants to our country, because we are the example to the world.

The course of America and its influence in the world will change overnight. America will be redeemed, and be placed back at the top of legitimate governing. More countries will see how Democracy really operates , and really is a choice government for all nations in the world. We will see other governments solve their problems the same way without use of force, such as the unfortunate assassination of Mrs. Bhutto.

George Bush and Dick Cheney will be revered as good honest men, hero's in fact; and be remembered for bringing our nation to the imparts of Impeachment, for the good of the country and really the good for the world. Better to go out honestly and doing something they have real control over by implementing Impeachment than to go on as past Administrations most Americans tend to hate in the past.

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 5:41:31 AM
 

I second. Now wait a minute, and lend me your ears

I have no faith in Obama. I think he's biased, and will essentially attempt to continue The Great Game instead of exhibiting integrity.

Actually, if you wanna get technical, ANYone can print off a verified copy of the Constitution, and sally forth. And, probably have this really interesting conversation with somebody in a suit.

But, if you read that baby, line, chapter, and verse, the Grand Old $hitfinger generally seems to point toward Washington, and past that, it really doesn't matter who's name is on the summons, 'cause you can title it, 'to whom it may concern' etc. Bad Karma is generated for the entire country when funnybusiness goes unrecognized, or, even worse, is tacitly accepted. Barack himself has said that Washington is broken, but he kind of failed to elaborate on the details. He wants us to believe that he's The Man. I think he's A man, and, while we're talking technicalities, anyone can run for president that is of 35 years age, a US born citizen, I forget the rest, but in theory, at least, that opens up the field Matrix-style...soo....WHY so few 'candidates'?

I got some 'candidate' questions, here, since we're talking about reform and impeachment and stuff...

Candidate: Are you now, or have you ever been, a real estate agent?  

Candidate: Have you ever been in the military? If so, did you serve honorably? When did you serve, etc.  

Candidate: Got any money? If so, how much? Where'd you get it?

Candidate: What do you think of the Iraq war? Be brief, but to-the-point.

Candidate: How thorough is your understanding of the Constitution? Do you think this country is following the constitution, or only paying lip service?

Candidate: Do you believe that there is an integrity problem in our system of government? Do you intend to pay attention to that sort of thing?

Candidate: In 2007, a woman working for the property tax office in Washington, D.C. was found to be taking money out of the property tax system.  She was believed to be working with an officer of the Internal Revenue Service. If you are elected, do you intend to oversee tax system reform that will help prevent future occurrences?

Candidate:  Do you feel that the current president did a good job?

Candidate: If you commit a high crime or misdemeanor while in office, will you fight efforts to remove you or otherwise attempt to manipulate the legal system to your advantage or for other purposes? In other words, if elected, will it be your intention to actually do what it says in the Oath?

Candidate: What is your view on proper administration of the immigration system?

Candidate: Under the Bush administration, war profiteering has been discovered. What actions would you support or direct against those parties found to be conducting less-than-honest business with our government?

Candidate: Describe your understanding of the word 'equality'.

Candidate: What is your opinion of the European Union?

Candidate: What is your current assessment of the state of OUR Union?

Candidate: Given that the United States has a long history of problems along the US/Mexico border, and you are the commander-in-chief of our armed forces if elected, how will you utilize this resource to prevent future border problems?

Candidate: What is your understanding of the events of WWII?

Candidate: Will you keep your campaign promises, or are you saying things that you believe will get you elected?

Candidate: Can you build an ethanol still, or would you be willing to learn?

Candidate: Describe your understanding of the term, 'conservation'.

Candidate: How do you feel that NASA has progressed over the years in terms of achieving their stated goals?

Candidate: Other nations are also having troubles, what would you suggest in order to render enlightened assistance to them?

Candidate: Speak to the phrase, 'military-industrial complex'.

Candidate: Who was your favorite general?

Candidate: What is the capitol of Montpelier?

Candidate: Many states seem to be having problems balancing their budgets. What advice or instructions would you give them if elected?

Candidate: Religion is an issue of our times, specifically the manipulation of religious bodies or institutions or their adherents and congregation for profit and political purposes. The constitution says 'congress shall make no law', but that leaves a rather large blind spot. What would you do in order to help religious institutions remain unaffected by influences that might seek to exploit worshipers of all faiths in the United States?

Candidate: WHAT is your favorite Monty Python movie?(or any movie).

Candidate: What is your opinion of the 'healthcare' situation? Do you believe that the standards and practices we've seen reflect honest business principles?

Candidate: Will you let yourself be manipulated by or fraternize excessively with foreign heads of state, or show disrespect to same?

Candidate: Do you speak a foreign language? If so, which one?

Candidate: Will you appoint a 'system administrator' as part of your Cabinet to help ensure that future systemic problems related to our Congress and the public purse will be dealt with?

Candidate: Same topic, will YOU attempt to pressure Congress in any way on spending issues, or will you respect them as a co-equal branch of government.

Candidate: Speak to the phrase, 'war powers act of 1973'.

Candidate: Complete the phrase, 'life, liberty, and ........'

Candidate: Military spending eats more and more budget money every year, forcing more and more debt spending. Are you satisfied with this circumstance, or will you seek to change spending levels.

Candidate: Another budget question: Bush is promoting a 3.1 trillion dollar budget. Will you reduce it, if elected?

Candidate: Yet another budget question: Foreign parties are allowed to buy Treasuries. Do you feel that this circumstance might be in conflict with the interest of the people, or not. If so, what consequences might there be?

Candidate: Will you direct our government offices and officers to respect the People?

Candidate: Increasingly, both our military and police departments appear like some sort of german shock troop elite. What influence does the country of Germany have on our government today, and what might that involve?

Candidate: Same topic, what is your opinion of the 'war on drugs'?

Candidate: Related topic, run-amok lending practices have had a detrimental effect on the US economy, and it's Citizens. What changes would you recommend/will you attempt to implement, if elected?

Candidate: The impeachment of George Bush and Dick Cheney has been forwarded, and tabled. Have you spoken with Rep. Conyers about this? What is your opinion on the issue?

Candidate: Our country was founded on the concept of rebellion from foreign rule imposed by England, and King George III. What is your opinion of foreign influence on the United States today?

Candidate: We frequently read about large sums of money being awarded by the courts in discrimination cases or accident/injury lawsuits. Would you seek to advise change about any of these practices, and further, what is your opinion on the general honesty and efficacy of the american legal system and its' actors/participants etc?

Candidate: If faced with evidence of public corruption in the future of ANY kind under your administration, will you take some kind of action and address the nation on the issue? Will you be fair and even-handed, or 'spare the rod' etc?

I think I could go on for another half-hour, this is an election year, and so far they haven't really shined a bright light in their faces and asked Those Questions(at least publicly). But, thorough is thorough...how BAD do you want That Job? Shouldn't want it at all. They ought to have to drag someone out of the crowd that doesn't have any felonies and has the skills.  The other George, Washington, I believe, said it: More power than any man should want, more power than any man should have?

by truthtruffle (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 94 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 12:00:36 AM
 

But wait, there's more!

Candidate: Given the past apparent errors within our system of government, what will be your response to hearing that any government employee anywhere within the federal system is embezzling money or otherwise not performing their job ethically and professionally?

Candidate: Do you feel that the election process yields the best possible candidate for the job of President, or should it be improved, if so, how?

Candidate: Do you feel that unions help or hinder the practice of honest business in the United States? Ronald Reagan famously took action against the air traffic controller's union. If you feel that a union is disrupting or attempting to subvert an american business, will you take any kind of action, if so, what?

Candidate: Which countries do you feel were involved in the events of September 11, 2001? Will your outlook alter your practices? Will you trade with the enemy?

Candidate: Would you declare an 'amnesty day' for gangs and gang members to freely come forth and identify themselves?

Candidate: The world's population now numbers 6.6 billion people, approximately. How do you feel that global population growth will impact US immigration in the future? What will be the burden on the states in the Union if immigration policy remains as it is/what changes would you suggest?

Candidate: A member of the US Border Patrol was killed during the execution of his lawful duties by outlaws operating a US-built military truck. What direction will you give on the future disposition of surplus military equipment to the public or to foreign countries?

Candidate: If you feel that another candidate has a better ability to fulfil the office, will you yield to them?

Candidate: Do you feel that our military has been honestly and effectively administrated?

Candidate: If you become aware of instances of public corruption, what do you intend to do about it?

Candidate: Outsourcing is said to have damaged our economy, yet little seems to have been done to really reverse the problem with any speed or efficacy. What do you feel the government's role should be in the situation?

Candidate: How racist are YOU? Explain the impact of racism and race-related politics on the government, and the justice system.

Candidate: If you become aware of a member of your Cabinet or of our Congress committing unlawful acts, will you direct them to be removed?

Candidate: Do you consider yourself to be an honest person? Would you kill someone for a billion dollars? Ten billion? A trillion dollars? Do you have a price, in that regard?

Candidate: What would you do to correct the apparent problems in the public education system? Should foreign citizens be permitted to participate in our education system, or would a better answer to be to promote the development of similar education systems in their countries? Reason for the question is because some of the accused in 9/11 were studying in the United States at the time of the attack. Is the presence of foreign nationals in our military environment or education system something important to you in terms of national security?

Candidate: Do you feel that our military should remain on foreign shores?

Candidate: What is the first thing you would do, upon taking the Oath?

Yeah, let's see THIS kind of stuff get asked on their 'debates'. Hold your breath...

by truthtruffle (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 94 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 12:25:45 AM
 

Let's fry the other side...tastes better that way

Candidate: Which state do you feel has the best state government/the worst?

Candidate: Previous administrations have fallen prey to various kinds of scandals. Will you seek to avoid such problems, and direct your appointees et. al. to avoid same?

Candidate: Will you let political bias interfere with the process of doing the job?

Candidate: Do you intend to do the job, or exploit the office for any purpose?

Candidate: Will you tolerate incompetence?

Candidate: Do you feel that the media has done a fair job of portraying you?

Candidate: Now that you've been involved in the process, what would you change about it?

Candidate: Do you feel that the voting system works properly?

Candidate: Will you treat people even-handedly, or show favoritism towards anyone, rich, poor, or otherwise?

Ok, a little salt and pepper, slap em on the plate, they're all done. 

Be the EVIL(but fair, and thorough, I think) Candidate evaluator hehehehe

by truthtruffle (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 94 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 12:47:02 AM
 

Final barking spider in their general direction:

Do you honestly feel that this has been a thorough vetting process, to get to where you are today?

by truthtruffle (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 94 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 12:58:57 AM
 

How about your answers?

Truthtruffle I fail to see what all these questions have to do with my article, but they are interesting questions nonetheless. I might ask you your honest answers to them, so as to have a glimpse into your thinking about such issues yourself.

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 6:06:56 AM
 

Obama unlikely to give up the "Tyranny Toolbox."

Obama is not the peacemaker that he claims to be lest he and the Democrats would be pursuing the impeachment of Bush/Cheney.

But, it is unlikely that either Democrat will want to give up the "tyranny toolbox" created by Bush and Cheney.

Please see the following Council on Foreign Relations website titled: "Council on Foreign Relations Partners with the Saban Center at Brookings on Middle East Strategy for the Next President." Scroll down to see the Strategy Group.

CFR Website: http://www.cfr.org/publication/15505/

Strobe Talbott and Sandy Berger are Hillary Clinton advisers. Zbigniew Brzezinski is an adviser to Obama.

The following Council on Foreign Relations website shows clearly that neither Iran nor Iraq are off the table: http://www.cfr.org/thinktank/tanusmes/index.html

It is in these web pages that the true intent of all the current frontrunners is revealed. Clinton, Obama, and McCain are interventionists believing that the U.S. is responsible for keeping peace in the world through military force, paid for by the American Taxpayer...nothing will change with the election of these "frontrunners."

by Linda Inveninato (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 12 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 11:10:25 AM
 

rose colored glasses

I think the idea that Bush or Cheney would ever voluntarily be impeached is comical.  "For the good of the country" is not a phrase they are familiar with.  Greed and power they are very familiar with, for them and their friends.  No offense, but you sound like a former Bush supporter who is slowly seeing the light, good for you.  But I think they would resort to any means possible to hold on to their power as long as they can.

by Bob WHite (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 12:30:15 PM
 

Clear Vision

You are wrong Bob. I was never a Republican. And to consider that education is comical really does no good to the image of America. People don't know how to be honest, so we need to educate them. Isn't that the case?

Instead of dismissing, I think you should think about it more to the parameters of achieving honest good government without the threat of violence and retribution. This includes the aspects of Impeachment and its process of resolution when laws conflict with each other.

Your comment simply reinforces that its OK for Presidents to kill innocent people to oust a dictator, and guarantees that they are not held accountable. Somehow Impeachment must reflect the core responsibilty toward honest self judgement. Honesty needs to be taught and ideas that Impeachment is always negative refuted.

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 at 8:45:04 PM