We Are Talking About the "Christian Soldier Thing" in Fl

MAYBE an OPER can make this event? HOPE SO, and I'll see you there! 

American Apocalypse: Road-map to Armageddon? 

 Internationally renowned Theologian, Reverend Dr. Stephen Sizer, Vicar of Christ Church in the UK is coming to Florida. His one and only public speaking engagement will be held Tuesday, July 3, 2007 at 3 PM at the United Church of Christ, 203 Washington Street, New Smyrna Beach, FL. 32168. 

 Reverend Sizer's thirteenth book, Zion's Christian Soldiers? Will be released in the autumn of 2007, but due to the current events in Gaza and Palestine, the Volusia Peacecenter and Florida Palestine Solidarity Network have arranged to bring him here so American citizens can learn how the secular state of Israel and American foreign policy, combined with the theology promoted in the Left Behind series has contributed to the exodus of the indigenous Palestinian Christians from the Holy Land. 

The presence of the descendents of the first century Christians has decreased from 20% of the total population of the Holy Land to less than 1.3% since 1948. Reverend Sizer will enlighten all present as to why the Christian Exodus has reached a crisis situation and what concerned Americans can do to help the most well educated and consistently nonviolent citizens to remain in their homeland. 

 "Stephen Sizer's work on Christian Zionism is the most important and comprehensive on the subject to date, and should be read by all students of the Middle East and by Christians concerned about a just resolution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Christian Zionism raises vital theological and political challenges that must be addressed head-on by Christians in the West, particularly evangelicals. The impact of this terribly misguided movement is increasingly putting Christians in the Middle East at risk, and it seems a far cry from the witness and message of Jesus Christ." Professor Don Wagner, North Park University, Chicago (author of Anxious for Armageddon & Dying in the Land of Promise). This event is free and open to the public, all welcome.

For further details contact: Dana Humphrey at (386) 846-3932 or info@volusiapeacecenter.org

http://www.wearewideawake.org/

by Eileen Fleming (146 articles, 51 quicklinks, 266 diaries, 580 comments) on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 at 8:39:53 AM
 

This is wonderful...

Thanks so much.  I wonder why it's so hard for us to be kind, have a bit of fun and love our neighbor without having to resort to violence?

by joanakelly (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 14 comments) on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 at 9:52:14 AM
 

Easy for you to say

Mr. Diehl, in picking the egregious and unforgiveable act of desecrating corpses, to illustrate your point, you stacked the deck.

There is a vocation to protect the weak.  Soldiers and police officers undertake it.

Jesus did not command soldiers to lay down their arms or quit the army, but to do no man violence and to be content with their wages.

I am always pretty perplexed about the contradiction between the command to do no man violence and what soldiers are trained for and have had to make do with my own concept of military service as a necessary evil, both evil and necessary.

The situation in Nigeria reflects this.  Nigeria is a massive, fast growing, poorly governed country with a chaotic economy and massive social and economic disparities.  Underlying this volatile mix is the religious confrontation between northern Moslems and southern Christians.  To add a perfectly diabolical flavor to this stew is that tribal affiliations tend to follow sectarian lines.

We can never retreat from our commitment to peace, justice and mercy, but somehow we must also be able to understand the deep divisions in Nigerian society and in all societies divided by class, religion or ethnicity.

It is not efficacious to deny these differences and say they don't matter, the young men quoted in the Reuters article clearly think otherwise.

Perhaps we can teach them how the values that we have inculcated and fostered in our society can be transformed and applied in theirs, but in my opinion, that requires an attitude of humility and of mission.

An attitude that I find compatible with the spirit expressed in Onward Christian Soldier, i.e., marching bravely and boldly AS IF off to war.

by Robert Chapman (28 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 556 comments) on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 at 10:42:05 AM
 

Christian Soldier

It's strange but I never thought of that hymn as being related to a killing war. In my mind from the time I was a child singing it in church I thought it meant that we were to consider proselytzing Christianity in a way that was disciplined and organised like an army would be. Certainly not to force conversions at gun point. That would have been anathema to the Christianity I grew up with. I really don't understand what happened to my religion in the intervening years. Have our beliefs been commandeered by extremists the way Muslim beliefs have been?

by Archie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1130 comments) on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 at 11:07:54 AM
 

Christians Never Allowed to Kill or Hurt anyone!

Archie, You have interpreted the song correctly and most Christians see it that way, but I still agree with Dennis that Christians must avoid any semblance of militant Christianity.

If the soldiers did that in Nigerian, they did it in spite of what New Testament Christianity teaches. Nowhere in the New Testament does one word even suggest that a Christian can be violent in any way for anything at any time. It is why Jesus said, "Many are called (to be Christian), but few are chosen." Not all who hold up the cross are Christians. Too many terrible things have been done under the banner of the cross, and each terrible thing is contradictory to the unique message of Jesus the Christ.  

Dennis, you would not want to get in a debate as to what is happening in Nigeria in the past twenty years. The Muslim chase all non-Muslim out or force them to convert to Islam or kill them in county after county; and the Muslims have killed them by the thousands. As soon as they have the majority, Sharia Law is declared and you can only be a citizen under Sharia Law if you are a Muslim. No, you had better leave that one alone. I can give you a whole book of atrocities.

Christians are soldiers but our battle is not against other human beings or against anyone that is a physical person. Our weapons are not weapons the people this world uses but our weapons are things such as truth and love and peace. Our fight is not against human flesh but against evil itself. Just go by what the New Testament teaches. It is that simple:

Ephesians 6:10-17.10.

Finally, my brothers, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might. 11. Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the Devil. 12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against Principalities (angelic), against Powers (angelic), against the Rulers of the darkness of this world (angelic), against spiritual wickedness in High Places (Heavenly). 13. Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness.  15. And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace. 16. Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked (the Devil). 17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (parenthesis are mine-pr).

Romans 13:12. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.

I Thessalonians 5:8-9.

8. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9. For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

II Corinthians 10:3-4.

3. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh. 4. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.

II Timothy 2:3-4.

3. You therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4. No man that wars entangles himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please Him Who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 

Dennis since you disagree with me on this, would you please quote for us your New Testament verses which prove what you have said on this blog in your last six articles and disprove what I say? It is only right and fair to expect this of you, and if you cannot, you are just blowing smoke and need to turn from attacking Christianity on this blog. It just forces me to attack Islam as when I had to do at the beginning of my comment about Nigeria.

I really suspect you are of another religion and may have never been a Christian. Am I attacking your integrity and honesty? You better believe it, just as you are attacking the integrity and honesty of all Christians and the Holy Scriptures.

If you have read enough of your Bible, you will know that Christians must always be ready to give a defense of our hope in Christ, and it would be terribly wrong of me to allow what you say just to pass as if it were truth. It is not truth.  The shame is that you know it is not truth.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 962 comments) on Thursday, June 28, 2007 at 10:22:23 AM
 

of course I understand the intent of the Hymn in real life

Of course I understand the intent of Onward Christian Soliders.  However, there are real people who, like the Taliban, believe that enforced Christianity or theocracy is best for all of us.  Many people loose their faith the fact that if you took the three major world religions of Judaism, Islam and Fundamentalist Christianity out of the news, we'd have world peace. 

 I grew up Presbyterian and completely understood I was singing about the Church being "like" a mighty army. But that still bothers me.  It still implies force and conquest of body, mind and spirit by one over another who simply may not see life thru the eyes of a fundamentalist anyone.  The intro to the article was merely to introduce the concept of religion gone mad. 

 I also don't hate God as some imply.  I intensely dislike the phoney control that some literalist insist on imposing on those that don't agree but better or should or need to be talked into it or else.  Ministers abuse members with exclusivistic rhetoric all the time.  In my heart of hearts, we are all equal, there are no special or chosen over all others humans and that idea is what gets churches and governments into unending problems, some of which may end more badly than they can possibly imagine if they aren't careful.

As I have said..In my career, I have met 23 of the Two Witnesses of Revelation..You know, the ultimate Christian leaders in the NT that kill off those that disagree with them etc.  That image perpetuates the idea that it's ok to harm those that just don't filter their world through the eyes of the enforcers. 

Even Peter is said to have killed off two members of the church for "lying to the holy spirit"   For better or worse, it more likely a spoof on Peter by Luke and Paul, who felt Peter was not qualified to lead anyone because he denied Jesus and Judas betrayed him.  The spoof was that here is the Great Apostle Peter, who said he'd do one thing-never leave Jesus, and did, killing off two church members who said they do one thing-give and didn't.  It s a joke on Peter and never happened literally as if the Romans would allow that to just go unreported literally.

by Dennis Diehl (68 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 55 comments) on Thursday, June 28, 2007 at 11:24:56 AM
 

Peter never killed anyone in all his recorded life!

Dennis,

You know good and well Peter did not kill them, but the God the Spirit struck them dead for vowing a lie to God.

You leave the impression that Peter violently touched them in some way and that is dishonest.

Acts 5:3-4.

3. "But Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4. 'While it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied unto men, but unto God.' 5. "And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up his sprit: and great fear came on all them that heard these things."

Read it for yourself. Unless the words can physically kill, Peter did not kill Ananias (nor Saphira in the next four or five verses).

You seem to hate the Written Word of God which testifys of the Living Word of God (Jesus Christ). Except for one or two comments made by secular men, we know nothing about Jesus Christ.

I am amazed that you attack the New Testament and have nothing to say about the Koran. What a poor excuse of a fairness you have? It is like always attacking Israel with never a negative word about Hamas or Hezbollah or Iran. You articles are not statements of truth, but propaganda against Christianity.

Remember, Daniel Pearle who was murdered by the murderers of little children.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 962 comments) on Saturday, June 30, 2007 at 3:09:37 PM
 

Defense of Bible Saints

Dennis,

The Bible is truth and paints all the warts of all its biographies; unlike false books such as the Koran and and the Book of Morman whose heroes never have fault.

Adam ate the fobidden fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil; Noah was in a drunken stupor after the flood; Abraham lied to save his skin twice and was willing to allow his wife to be forced to commit adultery in Egypt and then in Syria; Ishmael taunted his younger half brother to the place God told Abraham to send him out of the camp; Jacob's name means a trickster; Kiing David committed both murder and adultery; Pete denied Jesus and even later played the hippocrite; Paul had an unforgiving Spirit; while all these great men were human in their sinfulness, all were head and shoulders above Mohammed who had thirteen wives, hated all of them and one of his wives was his nine year old neice. We call that pedophilia or child rape in our society, but you know all this and never say a word. The Muslims make a poor defense of this pervert when they say he never consumated the marriage until after her period. Says who? The proper thing would be to adopt the child, not marry her so you can take her to bed. God did not take all of Adam's ribs so men could have multiple wives; God took just rib and there was just one Eve. One wife is enough for any man, and too many for some.

If you want to be cruelly fair, be fair at least. It is best to realize there are no perfect men in the human race. Mohammed was probably a step above the despicable religions practiced in the desert around him, but he was a sinner just the same and by his own testimony was not sure he would be able to enter Heaven. Mahammed was a great man of history, but a great man who was sinner like all men.

Romans 3:23, All have sinned and come short of glory of God.

Ecclesiastes 7:20, There is not a just man upon earth who does good (continually) and sins not.

Psalm 14:1-

1. "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. 2. "The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3. "They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that does good, no, not one."

Isaiah 53:6. "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

Dennis, as a Christian, you believe all your sins were eternally laid on Jesus the only begotten Son of God so you could be eternally forgiven and receive the gift of eternal life. If you do not believe Jesus the Christ died for you sins on the cross, was buried, rose again from the dead, is alive right now and is coming to judge the human race, then you are denying the basic tenets of Chistianity which is your free will to do, but do not do that and call yourself a Christian in the New Testament sense.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 962 comments) on Saturday, June 30, 2007 at 3:50:33 PM