The American character is one of a peaceful progress. As a nation we have been blessed with a concept of liberty that cherishes and maintains 'individual rights" over the rights and prerogatives of government. One only need read the "Bill of Rights", and its history and foundations to come to clear understanding of the blessings of liberties which we have inherited-- and to which Government ( state , Federal or local) adhere.
Of course "not always" .we are fallible as men and society, just as we are fallible as individuals. But our truer character is not one that sustains on hatred, passions of immediacy or the dissolution of justice and the rule of law. Besides the stresses and unreality which hatred lends, it consumes the societies.
One place where we have lost our direction character is provision of the due process requirements with the detainees in Guantanamo Bay. And provision of the procedural process is the type which may be reviewable in a manner as justice be served. The detention of a class of persons currently detained is substantially without recourse or remedy to the individuals being detained in spite of rulings such Hamdi v Rumsfeld (US Ct ) while about half the original class of detainees have been expatriated to other nations, almost 400 detainees remain in the Guantanamo Bay facility
Detention has been continuous and isolated from activities and events, other than the most localized and personal of observations-- and certainly removed from 'global network of terrorists' and the value of any military or other intelligence is relative to the Length in time of the detention ( now over 5 years). Many of the detainees are well within any definition of "enemy combatants and have latent skills, and concepts of potential harm to the United States and its inhabitants. It is for that reason they were trained in Al Quaida camps, with arms and violence. Certainly the Potential harm to the United States must be taken into account in the judicial determination. And simply freeing the whole class upon a legal habeas question is not an option of honor and safety.
But the legal habeas question must be attended if the United States upholds the very nature and character of principles over policies. Habeas corpus lay at the very core of the value of the Bill of Rights, included and assured by the Constitution of the United States. It is the individual's right to question the authority and execution of arrest and detention Of a government agency or division. The Hamdi decision pointedly provided that " it is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times we must preserve our commitment to the principles for which we fight abroad"...(O'Connor, J)
In fact, it has been long since the United States has returned to normalcy. Plane fly Regularly over the skies. People have returned to work and the nation's schools and universities are open. The press and media provide free opportunity to be supportive or critical of the Administration of government. Elections have been held throughout the nation continuing the 'great experiment" of liberty and justice. As a nation, America is not just about military might and patriotism that springs from hearts as we see our children carrying forward a mission without definition, without consensus, without understanding. We are inventors. And improvers. Engineers and Teachers. Students and those of Good Faith who have long come to recognize the potency of principles over policy . We have come to recognize the stability which results from investing in the lands and people. We are a responsible people, able to build energy needs, design public health systems, and raise the harvest of grains and agriculture. We are storytellers and poets; song birds and those that can build new cities, places of respect, learning. But we cannot do that without the core of that which has made us. And that is our principle of freedom and liberty. And the understanding that no man is either above or beneath the law. No matter how heinous the crime or intent. No matter the political charge or partisanship; no matter, wealthy or impoverished. We have returned to normalcy and must employ the core of our principles. And habeas lay at the center. Ours is a heritage and destiny in the assurances of Constitutional due process. Not the type which for whatever circumstances the wind blows allows the cherishment to be blown in that wind. This nation is the promise to its people -and the people of the world- of a safe and prosperous world; of the rule law and the conduct of nations to effectively combat the scourges which have beset mankind-- hunger, disease, poverty. And it is under principles and the value of who we are. Habeas lay at the core of that. According to Senator Specter of the Judiciary Committee there has been testimony which provides the current tribunal system many occasions hearings were conducted without account for language barriers and interpretation, absent an attorney, or mechanism of adversary conduct a defense. What is less than testimony is interrogation techniques-- in the suspension of the basic values which are commonly understood in American homes and communities. The military objective of human intelligence or evidential intelligence in the immediate in the immediate aftermath of September 11th events culturally superceded the qualitative value in assurance of substantial rights. It is certain that the techniques now deemed a "failure of leadership" were justified in the command structure which would provide information that would "save American lives'. The intent was to break them down, and gather the information. If they died so be it. These were justified tactics to a strategic war on terror carried on in the operations of foreign environments. Now America should task to remember herself, not as the empirical nation in scourge of war and pestilences, but as the preserving force of freedom and democracy in a world of uncertainties. Great challenges have been before the nation over the last century. Warfare extended to a world war-- in fact two world wars, each threats to the whole of the nation which no foreseeable comparative now exists. The nation faced two scores of Immediate threat from soviet block nations in a "cold war' of ideology and realistic world of nuclear detonation. Throughout there has been genocide, and acts of anarchy, criminal killing sprees. There have been despots, and juntas, and revolutionaries--and world armies far away. These conditions did not begin anew on September 11, 2001.And a global war on terror without the rule of law substantially changes the worldview of America from preserving freedoms and liberating peoples to voiding the very principles which have brought the greatness in the nation forward. And been the root of generations who have found themselves serving and defending the country. And habeas lay at the center. An adjudication process can provide ample mechanism to lawfully detain and otherwise determine the outcomes of the detainees. Simply, did the individual take arms up against the United States? In doing so was such alleged acts by conspiracy or by an act or order of a foreign government? A factual documentary evidentiary trail reflecting " Deft was found in proximity of (Al Quaida base camp) on (October 23, 2001) or Deft is not native to provincial area where found and was armed and combative until surrender and capture." and supported in such manner as to be in adversarial procedures , with communication for legal assistance and reviewable process is not unthinkable in these days of normalcy. Habeas lay at the core of our values. Without the core of that which has made us - our principle of freedom and liberty with the understanding that no person is either above or beneath the law. No matter how heinous the crime or intent. No matter the political charge or partisanship; no matter whether wealthy or impoverished. We have returned to normalcy and must employ our principles. And that justice be served.
www.eliotgould.com
Eliot Gould , 52, is currently active in New Mexico's political scene. A native of Chicago,and active in Chicago politics,Gould studied the Presidency at Center for the Study of the Presidency, with extensive writings upon Lincoln and Wilson.
This is such an unfortunate mixup of arrogance and bleak idealism that I don't even know where to start:
But here is something:
1. Gitmo detainees were captured during our illegal war against another country (Afghanistan).They thus never did any harm to the US; they by definition are POWs at least or rather are illegally captured. All the definitions from the Patriot Act are illegal and cannot be used against anyone anyway.
2. We do not know who did 9/11 because there never was any trial. As such all the politics, wars and detentions so far are based on the version only and we kill people, detain people, interrogate people and deceive people on the basis of.. rumor promoted by the criminals at power.
3. US never was and never will be a promoter of freedom as a country. It is exactly the same as any other country. The people of the US are not different from all others and Habeas Corpus is essentially a British invention, sorry.
4. Gitmo concentration camp is by far only a symptom of the horrible erosion of the idea of the rule of law in our country. In fact we now have whole groups of population which are treated the same- poor people, homeless, migrants,
poor black people, etc. Our law professionals actually assisted Bush in carving out the Patriot Act and they were never disbarred while Clinton was nearly crucified for an indiscretion. We suck as the country of laws. We suck bigtime.
5. To love this country is not to preach that it was always good until it screwed up. To love it is to acknowledge that we are the same in good and bad as all others. And that anomaly we have now is ours to clean up. No, I do not want the Deft or whoever to be picked up 'near the Al-Qaeda camp'. I want Bush behind bars.
And then let Justice be served, Habeas Corpus included.
by
Mark Sashine (47 articles, 19 quicklinks, 236 diaries, 3362 comments)
on Sunday, February 18, 2007 at 2:47:28 PM
First of all I want to thank you for the comments. They project a veiwpoint which when the thoughts were written were not taken in.
Now let me state clearly, I believe the day Bush and Cheney are ex-officials , they will be subject to crimes under international law-- a situation which under the current legal scheme cannot be. More and more we can see this being foreshadowed as European nations such as Germany and Italy have brought up charges upon those involved in the "rendition program".
But that is completely different in issue than whether or not the United States should maintain the principles enumerated in the Constitution. Related to "habeas', it was not long ago that the Attorney General 'testified" that 'habeas "( the right to challange the government's imprisonment in the Courts)is not guaranteed. And arguing about a negative such as "habeas shall not be suspended except in times of rebellion or invasion proves ( along with Title 28 of the United states Code) that habeas exists and therefore should be preserved rather confuses the fundamental: each detainee is due a right of a trial, with charges and representation.Charges should be based in fact, with evidences and have certain appealible rights. None of which are prsent in the current scheme of the Adminsitration, the DoD, or apparently , the department of Justice.
Such trials were held subsequent to World War II with regard to Nazi atrocities. International trials have been
held under 'the rule of law' in varying other matters-- just the last week found a General under Milosovic "guilty of war crimes".
But make no mistake about it, several of the detainees would if they could promote war upon America. In saying that, I'm not talking about buildings. ( In 2002 dollars, the World Trade Center could have been rebuilt for about 16 billion). I am talking about civilian lives. A process of war and destruction which is "unacceptable" to the civilized world.
Certainly, Bush and company have brought that 'unacceptable " upon civilians the world over and in Iraq in particular. And this reply should not be construed as a statement of support that unacceptable be accepted.It should be as your comment notes should be condemend.
And what I am speaking of when it was write "Deft was found ... are upon specific facts upon which evidences may be presented and tried with due process. Of over 650 detainees in Guantanamo, only 400 or so remain. The balance have been rendered to other nations with no trial or even an attempt to provide that which is fundamental to all Americans and at the "core of our freedoms". That in particular is unacceptable. The United states and its agencies cannot wisk away citizens or non-citizens without due process. That is illegal. And is only supported now by naked force and an arrogance of power.
It is far from a perfect world, but we should reset the clock into motion of the more perfect union. That is really what America is about.
by
Eliot Gould (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 21 diaries, 81 comments)
on Sunday, February 18, 2007 at 4:16:49 PM
for my fiery statement at the start of my previous comment because now I understand that you want to solve the situation
under the current legalese whatever it is. This process if initiated will also show clearly the whole illegality of what the US is doing, I guess. We have, though, problems of immense legal precedence: can we here try people whom we illegally detained as a result of our aggression. You may not agree with me but the Hague Tribunal is considered unlawlful in many countries and the fate of Milosevic is considered a fate of the martyr. It is a long story but the issue is the same- we have a precedent of illegality preceding the legality. This, of course, started from the fact that there was no trial of 9/11.
I surely appreciate the answer.
by
Mark Sashine (47 articles, 19 quicklinks, 236 diaries, 3362 comments)
on Sunday, February 18, 2007 at 6:34:20 PM
Personally I just find it interesting that before the Iraq War it was said that the U.S. would be "Bringing Democracy and the Rule of Law" to them - over there, yet the very first thing done was the removal of the very same principal, over here, for them, from over there.
Granted they are "enemy combatants", non uniformed in some cases as they don't fight War with the same rules, but if you change yours well, your on the way to becoming 'them' Right?
by
Mr. Robin Parsons (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 64 comments)
on Sunday, February 18, 2007 at 8:00:36 PM
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: eliot gould
> > Dr. Payne, Good to see that you are still active. I look forward to when
> I'm in Abq and we have lunch or coffee. My intents are for a better
> America, including the procedural processes...I finally got a
> conversation with gary King, whoi you know is our new AG...but I don't
> think he is ready to improve the Courts depite his position..at least
> not yet. We'll see.
> Let's stay in touch.
>
> My best regards,
>
> Eliot Gould
We just have to admit that we have let tyrants rule for over six years while we have all stood by and wrung our hands.From the stolen election to the destruction of an American landmark and 3000 lives with varying excuses and blame games. We have become a country of soulless people who do not have the courage of our conviction's. We burrow our heads in the sand with the grub worms. We relied on the other guy to do it for us and the other guy did. George did it and we let him. No one has the courage or the will to march up to the White House and throw the impostors out. We do not violently over throw our own government, just the governments of perceived enemies. How can we redeem ourselves?
Impeach the tyrants is the best and most lawful remedy, but no one who has the ability has the will.Common sense tell us that that will be our only recourse, for reason does not work with tyrants. Call it partisan, but then we are the party of mankind. Party of the first part. Let's act like it.
by
cluelessfl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 184 comments)
on Sunday, February 18, 2007 at 11:06:42 PM
Unfortunately the majority of your comments about how wonderful the U.S. is are not based on fact but upon myth, myth that can proven to be based on lies, falsifications, rewriting of history and other disingenous prevarications. Everything from the original settlers recently disembarked from the Mayflower and how they actually killed the natives instead of sitting down to a Thanksgiving dinner with them through the Custer's last stand atrocity ( and I don't mean that fool's death along with his whole cavalry troop, I mean the sysematic killing by the brave, loyal American troops of every native man, women and child who they happened upon)to more recent atrocities such as the killing of three million Vietnamese or the even more recent deaths of six hundred thousand Iraquis. You and your disgusting heart felt loyalty to your great and totally evil country sickens me!
by
Archie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 978 comments)
on Sunday, February 18, 2007 at 11:53:27 PM
New York Times Editorial
Making Martial Law Easier
Published: February 19, 2007
"A disturbing recent phenomenon in Washington is that laws that strike to the heart of American democracy have been passed in the dead of night. So it was with a provision quietly tucked into the enormous defense budget bill at the Bush administration's behest that makes it easier for a president to override local control of law enforcement and declare martial law.
The provision, signed into law in October, weakens two obscure but important bulwarks of liberty. One is the doctrine that bars military forces, including a federalized National Guard, from engaging in law enforcement. Called posse comitatus, it was enshrined in law after the Civil War to preserve the line between civil government and the military. The other is the Insurrection Act of 1807, which provides the major exemptions to posse comitatus. It essentially limits a president's use of the military in law enforcement to putting down lawlessness, insurrection and rebellion, where a state is violating federal law or depriving people of constitutional rights."
Have you heard one Democrat say a word about these ominous new laws?
Are we safe in assuming that Democrats will take action to prevent Bush from declaring Martial Law and effectively making himself dictator for life?
Do you sometimes suspect that Democrats and Republicans are doing a "Good Cop, Bad Cop," routine on us?
by
rabblerowzer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 227 comments)
on Monday, February 19, 2007 at 5:25:02 AM
I think your opinion on Habeas Corpus is correct, but as far as returning to normalcy, we haven't come close. We are just about of the verge of a military dictatorship. This I say with all sincerity.
by
Timothy V. Gatto (348 articles, 177 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 575 comments)
on Monday, February 19, 2007 at 10:21:04 AM
Sarge: The habeas Military tribunal issue is a subject matter where Congress can assert limits on the Presidential imperialism without the labeling spin of contributing to the enemy or the labeling of extremist imaging. Clearly the efforts with the "non binding resolution of the last couple of weeks have proven that efforts to limiting will face "party oppositions" and be left in a quagmire. habeas, in spite of the interpretation of the Adminsitration's AG is constitutional..and it's absence in practices indicates we have lost our civil liberties. It is time to resore, and emphatically so.
by
Eliot Gould (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 21 diaries, 81 comments)
on Monday, February 19, 2007 at 11:57:43 AM
