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November 11, 2008 at 06:49:21
Promoted to Headline (H3) on 11/11/08: by Gene Messick |
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http://earthhome.us
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| 15 comments |
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How
Good Article. I've felt like you for a while or so now. Unions are basically a working form of Socialism too. Maybe the combo we need most. by Michael Dewey (5 articles, 1 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 245 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 11:53:57 AM
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Happiness
Seems our Constitution specifically mentions the 'Persuit of Happiness'. Surveys do indicate that the countries with happier citizens are the Socialist ones. I too would be a LOT happier with Single Payer Health Care, a prison system that shows respect for human beings (google Norway for example). Our government is the first place we should look to for examples of respect and compassion. Unfortunately, the Republican model works with We the People as Prey. How about we try something different for a few years? by Roger (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 465 comments [22 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 2:23:08 PM
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Reply: How
Hey Tom Paine warned about an avidity to punish. That warning is not be heeded today. Even the Talmud of the Jews says: "If the world continues to insist on strict justice it will not endure." I would like to see US have a constructive way to help people repent, or as I would rather call repaint. For this whole mess needs tobe repainted. I'm right with you Man. by Michael Dewey (5 articles, 1 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 245 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 at 6:47:00 AM
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Good definition, Mister Gene
My AMerican Heritage Dictionary says this: 'A social system in which the producers [we Be] possess both political power and the means of producing and distributing goods". Yours is much easier for the Righties to understand. Oh, you forgot Fire departments and utility depts as a social entity. The only thing missing in this country is JOBS. Good paying upward mobility JOBS. Jobs produce revenue needed for roads, schools, fire and police depts and all those other things you mentioned. However, with Lil SHrub, we have lost the jobs, our roads are full of cracks and holes, and our schools are UNDER funded and closing by the 100's. Denmark has "the happiest ppl in the World" according to an AOL poll I saw a while back. Hmmm, and what ya suppose is their gov't type? Yup Socialism. See, the righties call anything the Dems introduce socialism or communism when indeed, Bush ad Cheney have placed us in the hands of communists (China) both $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ wise and dependent on goods. I'd say we are communistic in this country. At the least a dictatorship and fascism rules us. The "corporate King" is the master and every single one of us, is the SLAVE to that king. by shirley reese (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 592 comments [98 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 2:39:57 PM
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Interesting
As King George just gave us the third faze of American Socialism (FDR, then LBJ), I wonder how those of us that work for a living are to aford it. Socialism it'self is a noble thought, but it's based on all people pulling their weight. When Joe Biden said it's patriotic to pay more taxes, I wonder if he would think it's patriotic to get off ones bottom and go find a job to pay taxes rather than receive them. When the roads and public schools are brought up as part of socialism, the author forgot that roads have user fees built into fule taxes. As for schools, America did much better with local control rather than the moster called the Dept. of Education. Socialism works best at a local level when it comes to social services because there is accountability. The federal government has no authority to fund any of the social programs and has done an extreamly poor job in the performance of those programs. If an individual state only wants limited taxes paid into social programs, that is their right (according to the Constitution). If a state wishes for a great deal of socialism, that is also their right. The Federal government has a very limited scope in what it can do. It was designed that way for a reason. The individual states were intended to be semi-independent republics. I realize that 99% on this site will disagree with me, but it is how the federal government was intended to operate. One of the very few interventions from the feds that was legal & justifiable was the civil rights actions of the 50's, 60's & 70's because some of the states were clearly violating the treaty they ratified (the Constitution) by dening equal protection to their citizens. Is Social Security constitutional?...No, however if individual states were to create such a program independent from other states and the federal government then it would be legal, along with welfare, medicaid, medicare, section 8 housing etc. As the social security system goes broke due to the original flaw in the design (those that were old enough when first created started collecting full bennifits immediately with never paying in) followed by political payoffs to the public by raises to the old and failing to increase the collection ages as life expectency increased. It is a broken system. As for the individual that has an IRA/401k, their investments are sucking wind now, but in 5 yrs, they may be strong again, we know social security won't get better because the politicians keep making false promises and stealing the money from it and giving it to people that have no business collecting it.. As I had a choice to vote for the socialist lite or the full flavored socialist in this last election, I wonder who it is that teaches our kids about the federal government. I have had to vote for the lesser of two evils (no, the people running for office are not evil) for almost every election I have been eligible to vote in. I'm sick of it. Both Obama & McCain are so incapable of fixing the problems left to us by not just Bush, but all presidents and congresses since FDR was elected. Our domestic policies are discombobulated, only exceeded by our empirical foriegn policy. In the end, I would suggest that those who think "their side" is the answer should carefully read how this nation was created an the early arguements that occurred while creating the Constitution. Finally; No government should have the right to steal my earnings in order to give it to my neighbor who chooses not to better themselves. by Larry A (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:00:20 PM
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Reply: How
Yes the States should have more oversite of Corporations taking care of Its Workers, and City, Counties and Towns they make there trash.cash in. We need to get together locally for that to happen. Social Security is not a bad thing. We need to be creative to find other ways to found it. Maybe just taking the % from all incomes would do that, instead of where's it stop 200 thousand. I'd like to see BIG OIL and the MSM pay much more into medicare and S.S. by Michael Dewey (5 articles, 1 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 245 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 at 6:43:20 AM
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I've always had a chuckle in my voice
when I've heard a Republican bloviate the "Free Market" system, obviously unable to comprehend the hypocrisy in their phrase. These are people who have put up a "Family Values" wife and political party swappin B rated senile sap Ronald Reagan, a "Voodoo Economics" Bu$h I, supplying a Reagan "Freedom Fighter" Saddam Hussein with weapons 6 months before "Desert Storm I". And a self-appointed "War" president Dybua, who is AWOL/Deserter, inside trader, convicted drunk driver who won't disclose the last time he's done cocaine, and his 5 time Vietnam deferment multi-convicted drunk driving Buckshot Dick. Who claim to want less government and fiscal spending, while bloating its size, creating run-a-way deficit spending your great-grandchildren of "Loved Ones" will only be paying a fraction of the interest accrued on the trillions of $'s of debt. Such hypocrites! by Stanimal (2 articles, 226 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 1254 comments [234 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:01:45 PM
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Socialisms Kill Crooks and their Rackets Dead.
Socialisms kill racketeering. That's why crooks hate socialisms so. They cut off their license to steal. by John Hanks (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1760 comments [39 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:38:24 PM
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Thank you
I always learn a lot of good things on Oped from great articles like this that have intelligent discussion afterwards. Can someone answer me this, I'm not asking to debate but because I just want to know. Socialism doesn't sound to bad when all citizens who are able will pull their share of the load. Do you think America will one day become a socialist nation? What would be the pros and cons? by Sharon Roach (15 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 184 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 7:03:21 PM
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Reply: Sharon
Wikipedia has a fairly concise definition of socialism, part of which I post here, (links will not likely work): Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society. Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism. Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved. Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other. Another dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split on how a socialist economy should be established between the reformists and the revolutionaries. Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy. Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs; Libertarian socialism (which includes Socialist Anarchism and Libertarian Marxism) rejects state control and ownership of the economy altogether and advocates direct collective ownership of the means of production via co-operative workers' councils and workplace democracy. End quote. Much more and greater detail at their site. Just google "socialism". As much disdain is associated with the concept, the American system is rife with socialist philosophy, tenets and properties, without which, America would likely be among the most classed societies on earth. Pure, unregulated capitalism would be the greatest economic concept ever adopted by humans - to those that have. And those that don't would be considered nothing more than oxygen thieves stealing from the worthy. The thing to remember is that the top-level political structure and the ruling class elite abhor the concept or mention of socialism as it directly threatens their exclusivity - socialist programs always emerge through the will of The People. (Europe has the history and has had the time to have learned these lessons.) by Michael McCoy (7 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 487 comments [26 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 11:18:55 PM
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Reply: Michael and Sharon
There is a Mondragon Cooperative in Spain. It uses capital at the service of labor. Not the reverse of what we have here. Its a combonation of Unions, Worker Owner Cooperatives, small business and Nationizing the BIG CORPS, as I see we need on State, County, City and Town levels, how ever the local powers feel would work best. by Michael Dewey (5 articles, 1 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 245 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:00:55 AM
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Reply: Facing Socialism in America
Dear Sharon I would hope that the USA will entertain socialism that supports it's people. The best way is a balance between socialism and free enterprise. Balance is something that applies to almost everything. Americans do not understand what socialism is. They think socialism is Communism. That does not bode well for the US education system, even at University level. Let us hope that America moves in the direction of becomming a caring socielty, and supports socialism where warranted. America can afford to put all students in higher education that show an interest to obtain a higher education. by Rolland Miller (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 227 comments [78 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 at 1:54:54 PM
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Alice in the etymological wonderland
American mythology is a carefully maintained farce, and semantical word games facilitate countless illusions. Clever illusions that cloak critical realities. Who's ready to admit that 'pure democracy, US style' has gotten us where we're at? by Michael McCoy (7 articles, 1 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 487 comments [26 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:32:26 PM
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Bush is not a Socialist ..
What is it called when the Democratic Congress wants to pass a bill which will seize our 401k and the government will let us know how much we can have and when we can have it? I don't remember this being talked about whe Bush was President, this happened the day after we heard our new President was Obama. I guess I'm not Patriotic because I don't blieve in share the wealth or time to be patriotic with my money... and to see the girl jumping up and down crying "No more mortgage, no more gas bills, Obama is now our President" This I need to see... Do all Americans believe this? With all the programs our new President has in store, how is he not going to raise taxes on everyone? I don't see where he will drill for oil, and once he charges more tax on big oil companies... won't the price of gas go back up...?? How does no one else see this? by Don Bybee (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 116 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 at 6:17:13 PM
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Reply: How
Oh we need freedom from the MEDIA-RIGHT-STORM's stone throwing before we get any where better. by Michael Dewey (5 articles, 1 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 245 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:23:54 AM
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