And I think that you - you know politics is a game of pressure and a game of power and I would not want to do anything that would further the long-term viability of Hamas, but at the same time - it's sort of a moot point whether you should talk to them because frankly the Israelis have been talking to Hamas for a long time through Egyptian security officials as the intermediaries and that's how the original truce that was set up when July was arranged between these Egyptian go-betweens. So they’ve already been talking to Hamas. I think that one can have limited strategic negotiations with groups like this, but I think I would empathize at this point with Israel, that one wants to seek ways by which the power and reach of these groups are diminished.
And I can guarantee you, having been on the ground in Gaza, and having been in situations such as the siege that Gaza is now enduring - that the policy that Israel has chosen is a lifesaver for a group like Hamas.
Kall: then there's the argument to be fair, is it possible for there to be peace with someone like Netanyahu running Israel? It looks very likely that he'll be the next leader.
Hedges: well they don't want peace - I think what’s happened to Israel, and it’s very sad is very much what’s happened to the United States in that Israel in 1948 achieved quite a remarkable victory over Arab militias, poorly organized Arab armies - this was repeated again in 1956 and then repeated again in 1967, and then repeated again in 1973. And a very similar process took place in the United States after our victory in World War II. We began to think that we don't have to talk to anybody. We are so powerful and our military is so unchallengeable that we can just impose our will.
And I think that those policies, if one looks at the history of states and empires that somehow feel they don't need to engage in diplomacy - the need to make compromises - they don't need allies because Israel in the world community is as much a pariah at this point as the United States are doomed. Our imperial wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are without question going to end in failure and retreat. And I think that ultimately the policies that Israel is pursuing in the West Bank and in Gaza will lead to Israeli failure
Kall: not only that, but there are reports that in Europe and around the world, attacks on Jews and Jewish communities are increasing
Hedges: Well, this is my fear - and Israel bears some responsibility for this, you know the Holocaust was a good business for them. If you know the history of Israel, it's fascinating, because in the 50s, there was a kind of real shunning or of disdain of Holocaust victims, for in the Israeli eyes for not fighting back, and it was only in the 60s that they began to realize that this was a really great cause, especially if you were into the cult of victimization - I'm terrified this will result in anti-Semitism, which is as disgusting as any kind of racism. I think there is a great deal of racism towards the Muslims, especially Arabs within our own country and that scares me. You know when that violence is used as a justification to deny the humanity of anyone – be they Jew, Muslim, American, whatever, you know, Saudi. Then we begin to enter a very frightening world
Kall: it's a challenge because, as publisher of op-ed news I see an awful lot of occasions where writers or commentators will mix Jews and Israeli policy - Judaism and Israeli policy. And that's just not the case. From what I understand there were 10,000 people in Tel Aviv protesting against what's happening...
Israeli Protest of Gaza Invasion
Hedges: well, you know, I lived in Israel for two years and you know, everything I say is controversial in the United States, because unfortunately of the "lock" the Israeli lobby has but when I'm sitting around Jerusalem with my Israeli friends, they yawn and go to sleep. It's nothing that they don't read the pages of newspapers like ours. Israeli society has a much more vigorous and healthy debate and a much better understanding of the oppression that’s carried out by Israel of Palestinians - I mean, I think the best reporting of the plight of Palestinians, bar none is Haaretz with reporters like the Amira Hass and Gideon Leavy, Danny Rubinstein - all Arabic speakers, they know their history - very courageous
Kall: that brings up my next question, which is about media coverage here in the United States, which is pathetic, really
Hedges: it's tragic, I mean, the New York Times is the worst. You know it's that idea of balance - so okay, we are going to show pictures from Sderot, which there was a rocket that damaged the side of the roof then show another picture of the Bathsheba Hospital in Gaza. When I covered the war in Sarajevo for Muslims in Sarajevo would lob a few light mortars at the Serbs and on Serb TV that dominated the news. If you cling to this idea of balance and objectivity, then what you're promoting is a lie, because to somehow pretend that these rockets are reciprocal to hellfire missiles and tank rounds and iron fragmentation bombs is to give a grossly distorted picture of what is happening within Gaza, between the Palestinians and the Israelis. It's safe, it doesn't get you in trouble, but it's not true.
And I think that's a perfect example of, for me, a kind of cynicism of much of the press. And unfortunately the New York Times and is a kind of moral abnegation. Our job, as reporters, and that's why I was in Sarajevo during the war is to make sure, that the outside world, sees, hears and understands what's happening to the victims, because without us the victims don't have a voice. Those in power, always have a platform, they don't need us. And to fail utterly - to present the proportionality of what's going on and make it clear that what is being carried out in Gaza just is so immense, as compared to, and what is happening to Israelis, by comparison, so miniscule. To fail to make that point is really to play into the hands of Israeli propaganda. I love the Times - I read it every day, but I can barely look at the coverage it’s just appalling
Kall: Well, thank goodness that what we do have - Al Jazeera inside Gaza reporting, and there are ways now to get it online. Regardless of where you are, and I just discovered this - it's astounding the coverage they're giving - it's something that we would never see if CNN or MSNBC or any of the local networks were covering it, and that's all these pictures of dead children. It's horrifying
Hedges: I can't even watch it, it's horrible, but you know, you have to remember that if you want that information then you have to be proactive. You have to go looking for it. The mainstream press, which you can receive if you're passive, is not giving it to us
