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Kall: Now, what you said earlier about "Dog Years," about how things are accelerated--are sped up; people are used to calling their legislators once a month—
Klein: Yes.
Kall: something like that; the way things are going, they've got to be calling 'em every couple of days really it sounds like.
Klein: Absolutely! Absolutely. And I'll tell you something; I've heard from people in the Obama campaign that the day after Barack Obama voted for the bailout he got more negative calls than he'd gotten the entire campaign…
Kall: Good! He should have; he deserved them.
Klein: But listen, this is all connected and in terms of what the stakes are--these banks were going down, these banks were going bankrupt because of their own deeds; but as we know, the bankers themselves have golden parachutes and bonuses and so on, but it is possible to get so much of a better deal than the one that has been "negotiated" by Henry Paulson and Neel Kashkari of Goldman Sachs, OK?
The point of negotiating that deal is that these banks that have failed in the private sector are having to move in to the public sector; they are being nationalized but the question is, is it going to be a good enough deal that they will actually be serious revenue generators, because this could end up being a backwards opportunity. Being in a financial crisis and actually having a new revenue stream, a significant new revenue stream, which are the banks—frankly, it they are well managed, can be a serious source of revenue—could be the way that Barack Obama could pay for the promises he is making now.
I realize that sounds like something radical to say: "Nationalize the banks and use the revenue to pay for your (government) services." But I don't think that's more radical than what they're doing now. They are doing socialism for the rich and I think, if we're going to be nationalizing the banks, nationalize them in the interest of everyone, nationalize them in a way that will make this country be able to afford a real green energy infrastructure. Nationalize them in a way that will allow the United States to provide healthcare to every person in the country. That is what people actually should be demanding in this moment of Dog Years when things are moving so quickly and suddenly we don't know what's possible, think BIG.
Kall: You cite Milton Friedman, who was the father of this idea, kind of like Hitler was the father of Nazi-ism and I'm saying that, not you,
(unintell).
You spoke recently at the University of Chicago and you cited a quote that you use frequently, that Friedman said, "Only a crisis actually perceived produces real change; when that crisis occurs the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are 'lying around'. That I believe is the basic function to develop alternatives to existing policy to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable. Now, we have to be able to be ready with those ideas…"
Klein: Exactly.
Kall: Like you just described. And, does anybody have them? I mean, you noted in your book that you’ve been observing and collecting these Friedman-type lying-around ideas. Does the left have lying around ideas that they can plug in during this crisis…
Klein: Well, I think it does, yeah.
Kall: And step all over Paulson?
Klein: Well, I think that we do have those ideas and what we lack more than ideas is confidence in those ideas. And believing that they really are good ideas. Um…
