K.S.: But you were going on.
R.K.: Well, yeah. I think it's a really interesting concept. I think it's one more neat idea to put out there. Where I've gone, in my pursuit of trying to look at the world from a more bottom up perspective, is I got started looking at it when Obama beat Hillary Clinton in one of the most powerful, top-down campaigns in history and he did it with a bottom-up collection of technologies and approaches and there are all these big giant companies now.
K.S.: Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let us not forget Wall Street behind Obama. Let us not forget Hollywood behind Obama. It wasn't all little people donating dimes. From the very start of his campaign, he was given massive support by Wall Street money interests. Democratic money interests who saw in him a perfect man, a perfect cover for the kind of power that they wanted to exert. Now don't give me "man of the people Obama."
R.K.: Well, we sure have learned that lesson, haven't we?
K.S.: I hope so.
R.K.: And you're absolutely right. Absolutely right. I think that, you know I wonder, I wonder if the bankers and the corporations went strongly to Obama ,or they hedged their beds and went both ways, but he certainly got a fortune from them and I certainly see him now as someone who was a corporatist and loyal mostly to bankers and corporations rather than to the people who voted for him, the middle class and the democratic people.
K.S.: Absolutely and you talk about billionaires, he hasn't harmed the billionaires at all.
R.K.: Yeah. And the more...
K.S.: He has done very well by them.
R.K.: The more I find out about him the more I see that he was created by billionaires to protect particularly the Chicago billionaires from where he came from, the Pritzker family in particular.
K.S.: That mob machine, yeah, you're right about that. But let me ask you a question. Suppose you say that the billionaires should be outlawed. I think that was the phrase you used. Just how could you accomplish this?
R.K.: Well, I wrote an article. There are a lot of different things that have to be done and I talked to Noam Chomsky about it a couple of weeks ago. One thing is you get rid of dynasties and you make it so that a billionaire cannot pass on billions to any of his descendants, or his or her descendants, or children.
K.S.: Just who is going to do this? Who is going to make this possible?
R.K.: Yeah. Well that's part of the challenge, but you know, if you don't put the ideas out there, nothing happens.
K.S.: If you do have...