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Korten: Yeah, hmmmmmm-hmmmmm.
Kall: And, ah, one of the main speakers, one of the keynote speakers, his company sponsors this, is Tim O’Reilly.
Korten: Okay.
Kall: O’Reilly publishes tech books. And he really came across in just the right way I wanted to hear. Do things that matter.
Korten: Aha.
Kall: That was the message that he said.
Korten: Hmmmm-hmmm.
Kall: And it was really good to see him talking to business people. He publishes the books and he’s one of the leaders in the field
We digress and talk about something that really isn’t relevant to the interview.
Korten: the other, the other frame for the bottom up, of course, is self-organizing. Which is, you know the kind of system frame on that.
Kall: Tell me more about that.
Korten: Well, you know, I mean, actually this goes to living systems. Living systems are extraordinarily self-organizing in the sense that there is no central control in our own bodies, of course they’re, I mean, I talk about this in The Post-Corporate World that, ah, and The Great Turning, that you’ve got these trillions of cells, and there’s no, I mean, we’re sort of conditioned, well the brain is controlling everything, but that’s not true. I mean, the brain controls certain aspects, but the whole system of cell function and cell organization, you know, these are all individual living beings that are in intense inner-communication and continuous adaptation to maintain both their individual health and vitality, but as well the health and vitality and function of our total organism. And, you know, that’s the same general principle in any kind of an ecosystem. There’s no central authority saying, “Okay, you go here. You do that.” Or you know, setting the direction…
Kall: What I’m saying in the introduction in my book is that nature is bottom up. The universe is bottom up. The way the World works is bottom up.
Korten: Well, yeah, I mean…Yeah, it’s just a different term. You could use the same term, self-organization, and it would actually put you more directly in sync with the system literature. Not that the concept’s different, but just the terminology.
Kall: And, then the other thing that you bring up and that you talk about is that it was civilization, empire, that turned things around.
Korten: Well, that’s, yeah…
