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No comments, In Series: Psychopaths and Sociopaths


The Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show Podcast

The Power of the Herd; Non-Predatory Power and Horse Sense; Intvw With Linda Kohanov

Podcast submitted by Rob Kall

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Headlined to H2 7/18/13
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Linda Kohanov  is an author, speaker, riding instructor, and horse trainer. Kohanov is best known in the field called "equine facilitated psychotherapy" (closely related to  therapeutic horseback riding ), and as the author of three books,  The Tao of Equus: A Woman's Journey of Healing and Transformation through the Way of the Horse  (2001),  Riding between the Worlds: Expanding Our Potential through the Way of the Horse  (2003) and "Way of the Horse: Equine Archetypes for Self Discovery". Since 1997, she is the founder and director of Epona Equestrian Services, a collective of riding instructors and counselors for equine-facilitated psychotherapy sessions, located in  Tucson, Arizona , (bio from wikipedia)

Interview notes: (mostly my questions)

Please start off with a story-- about the Fulani and the lesson of the Fulani-- (an African pastoral tribe)

Fulani right of passage. sharo

How does t his effect relationships-- combination of power and connection. 

Can you give an overview of the book and more details. 

Can you relate in humans, the difference between dominants and leaders. 

Dominant sounds like Top down and like Naomi Klein described in Shock Doctrine. 

Leader attracted to Novelty--   

confidence, curiosity and calmness-- 

predatory power and other kinds of power. 

Though herbivores, not predators, they are still non-predatory power animals

Fight to the death is strong in predatory power. 

Where do you see predatory power situations-- corporations, government, families?

predators, in nature, will eat their own children...

Sarah Palin-- as Mama Grizzly-- has to protect her own children from their own father, who will eat them. 

Eating our own children

youtube Battle at Kruger

Darwin's survival of the fittest-- 

     Peter Kropotkin - Wikipedia   wrote about mutual aid.

What does survival of the fittest mean to you?

cave paintings

domestication of horses

Made for Each Other: The Biology of the Human-Animal Bond ..


12 power of the herd guiding principles.


The Oxytocin Factor: Tapping The Hormone Of Calm by Dr. Kerstin Uvnäs-Moberg

          predatory power and culling the herd

Bullies and sociopaths in power

Lauren Lobe works with sociopaths

contagious emotions...

It sounds to me that even the most predatory animals have more connection and emotional experience than psychopaths and sociopaths.

From I've heard there are no effective treatments for psychopaths and sociopaths.

Low sensitive, high IQ, low EQ

In humans, what separates humans with sociopaths and horses?

Fascinating that there's no such thing as sociopath among horses.

Horse Goddess epona-- archetypal aspects?

non-predatory power

Not just a lack of empathy that causes conflicts

We need empathy, compassion, emotional heroism-- 

a form of power that effects change.

Twelve guiding principles of horse sense-- 

Fascinating writing on how famous people by developing relationships with horses learned how to lead-- Washington, Churchill, Buddha...

What are the most important lessons people can learn from the herd?

What are the archetypes associated with epona, the horse goddess?

gaining the trust of an angry stallion as theme throughout history. 

ancient archetype-- Alexander the great, Buddha, Washington-- 

black stallion movie--

article in August issue of Parabola Magazine--

Her horse, Midnight merlin,  demanded that she become powerful in order to work with him. 

Can you talk about the kind of power you had to learn with your horse?

Would Merlin be like a sociopath among horses?

What would you advise activists from this learning experience you've had. 

Shame as a stone-age power-tool" used by people who do not know how to use power. 

Now that horses are no longer obliged to work in our fields and carry us to war, they're doing something more important: They're working on us, helping us reclaim, daily, a hint of paradise not so much lost as misplaced. In rekindling our relationship with horses as guides--as catalysts of human transformation going back at least 30,000 years--we can't help but realize that even when we wander off the main trail and get lost in the woods, we're never alone in this world.

Dalai Lama has advised that people practice warmheartedness. Can you relate to what you've learned from horses about this. 

Talk about connection and power" 

dependent co-arising--

Thich nat Han-- interbeing. interconnected 

HOw do you enhance connection, optimize connection?

      get rid of your own deception?

The power behind non-violence

You said that  horses have consciousness of collective power of the herd-- as member of a larger collective mind.

how do horse anatomical functions affect their mentality?

    340 degree panoramic view.

    because they have hooves on the ground".

    better hearing, better sense of smell".

    different spectrum of color   

Size: 43,378,240 -- 1 hrs, 30 min, 22 sec


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Rob Kall is editor-in-chief, publisher and site architect of, President of Futurehealth, Inc, and an inventor. He hosts the Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show, aired in the Metro Philly area on AM 1360, WNJC. Over 200 podcasts are archived for downloading here, or can be accessed from iTunes. Rob is also published regularly on the

Rob Kall Wikipedia Page

Rob is, with the first media winner of the Pillar Award for supporting Whistleblowers and the first amendment.

See more Rob Kall articles here and, older ones, here. To learn more about Rob and, check out A Voice For Truth - ROB KALL | OM Times Magazine and this article. For Rob's work in non-political realms mostly before 2000, see his C.V..  and here's an article on the Storycon Summit Meeting he founded and organized for eight years. Press coverage in the Wall Street Journal: Party's Left Pushes for a Seat at the Table

Here is a one hour radio interview where Rob was a guest- on Envision This, and here is the transcript. 

To watch Rob having a lively conversation with John Conyers, then Chair of the House Judiciary committee, click hereWatch Rob speaking on Bottom up economics at the Occupy G8 Economic Summit, here.

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