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The Woodward Interview of Trump

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By Karl Grossman

"Trump's Agreeing to Talk to Woodward Shows Downside of Never Having Read a Book in Entire Life," was the headline of a satirical piece this week by Andy Borowitz of The New Yorker.

Borowitz declared: "While millions of Americans were astonished that Trump would voluntarily speak at great length to an author famous for his takedowns of Presidents, experts believe that a total obliviousness to books and what is inside them might have played a pivotal role."

The "The Borowitz Report" continued with a fictional expert, "David Logsdon, a University of Minnesota professor who studies the psychology of people who have never read a book in their lives" who "said that such people might be overconfident about how they would be portrayed if a book were ever written about them."

"'If you've never read a book in your life, you might be under the impression that all books are flattering,' he said. 'You would have no idea that a book could portray you as a human dumpster fire."

Indeed, Trump's tradition of never reading anything and thus being oblivious to who investigative journalist Woodward is might indeed have been a factor. That's beyond a joke.

Also, his extreme narcissism likely was a factor.

But I think the prime reason why Trump went for an interview by Woodward -- and 18 times at that! -- is because as a con man he figured he could con even a great investigative reporter.

Scam artist Trump figured he could even snow Woodward.

For 42 years I've taught a course in Investigative Reporting at the State University of New York/College at Old Westbury, besides being an active investigative journalist, and I teach a process for journalistic probes developed by Paul Williams.

The late Williams was also a professor of journalism, at Ohio State University, and also a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter, and his process -- called the "Paul Williams Way" in the investigative reporting craft -- contains what Williams termed "Key Interviews."

Preceding that, as Williams laid out in his landmark 1978 book, Investigative Reporting and Editing, are "Conception," "Feasibility study," "Go/no-go decision," "Planning and base-building," "Original research," "Reevaluation," "Go/no-go decision" -- and then "Key Interviews."

He wrote in his investigative reporting handbook: "Key interviews are to be saved for the last. There may be only one, or there may be as many as half a dozen. However many, the reporter sets them up only after he is satisfied that he has isolated the central figures behind his central thesis."

Williams wrote "that there are three important points to remember about it: you should prepare for it carefully; you should keep control of it, and you should use it to gain new information.

"Reread all of the files. Bring the chronology up to date," he went on. "Check and re-check crucial documents. Study all of this material until you can talk about any aspect of it without fumbling. Write down the questions. Study them in a logical order, going from the most general and least difficult ones at the start to the toughest and most specific ones at the end.

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Karl Grossman is a professor of journalism at the State University of New York/College at Old Westbury and host of the nationally syndicated TV program Enviro Close-Up (

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