McDermott: If we cut off the funds, it will be pretty hard for them to continue this operation. I, whatever the black operations are that are going on in the rest of the world, I don't know. I worry about that a lot but I don't know how to get a handle on that. Uh, I think that the issue of, uh, I mean there are things to be looked at here that I think where there are some real accountability questions. The issues of misspent money and torture and then some, and not - putting out the new Army manual without the Geneva Conventions in them. I mean, that was just laying on my desk, it was just reported in the press.
Swanson: Right.
McDermott: I mean we are making some fundamental moves that we are going to have to go back and rebuild a lot of stuff if we are now training people and not telling them about the Geneva Conventions. We're free to do whatever we want to people. We are no better than the people we're fighting. I mean, we may think we are because we go to church on Christmas and New Years or Christmas and Easter, but if our behavior in the field is no different, then we have lost the whole moral high ground. But one thing we always had, the thing that the world looked us for, I mean, they look to us for, I mean, they look to us for, you know, to enforce human rights violations or to prevent them.
Swanson: Yeah.
McDermott: And in Guantanamo is, I mean, we don't think of it as a gulag, but our main, you know, we've got to do some pretty fast dancing to figure out how to describe it in any other way than a prison camp that has no end . We put people in and they are forgotten. There is no way to get out. Uh, so when you, when you, when you start saying that we live by one set of rules and you have to live by another set, you are in real danger.
Swanson: So what should citizens be doing? What should the peace movement be doing? What should people be doing who don't like the direction we are headed?
McDermott: Well, (phone call interruption) I've got something I've got to do here. Um, what should citizens be doing?
Swanson: You've worked with activist groups like ours and with bands like Anti-Flag and so on, I don't know what other creative outreach you've done, but what is useful? What should people do?
IT'S ABOUT THE ELECTIONS
McDermott: Get involved with campaigns to change the agenda. If we don't , if we don't win one house this time, the next two years are going to be awful, just going to be awful. And my view is this election is a referendum on the President. And nothing else matters except getting the gavels back into the hands of Democrats, whether you are talking in the Senate or you're talking in the House or both. Because that is the only way we can set the agenda. Because when you have the gavel, you set the agenda. And the president is setting the agenda and Congress is rubberstamping everything he wants. And the only way out of that. So from my point of view the only thing really at this point is to unelect some people.
Swanson: Right.
McDermott: And it's not easy because the problem is that people are, people say, "I hate the Congress but I like our Congressman. He's a good guy. He's really a good man." No! You want more of Bush, you vote for him.
Swanson: Right.
McDermott: You've got to vote against so and so.
A DEMOCRATIC FUTURE
Swanson: But Bush will still be here even if there is a Democratic majority. I don't know if he'll start vetoing or if he'll keep doing the signing statements, but . .
Swanson: Right.
McDermott: I mean we are making some fundamental moves that we are going to have to go back and rebuild a lot of stuff if we are now training people and not telling them about the Geneva Conventions. We're free to do whatever we want to people. We are no better than the people we're fighting. I mean, we may think we are because we go to church on Christmas and New Years or Christmas and Easter, but if our behavior in the field is no different, then we have lost the whole moral high ground. But one thing we always had, the thing that the world looked us for, I mean, they look to us for, I mean, they look to us for, you know, to enforce human rights violations or to prevent them.
Swanson: Yeah.
Swanson: So what should citizens be doing? What should the peace movement be doing? What should people be doing who don't like the direction we are headed?
McDermott: Well, (phone call interruption) I've got something I've got to do here. Um, what should citizens be doing?
Swanson: You've worked with activist groups like ours and with bands like Anti-Flag and so on, I don't know what other creative outreach you've done, but what is useful? What should people do?
IT'S ABOUT THE ELECTIONS
McDermott: Get involved with campaigns to change the agenda. If we don't , if we don't win one house this time, the next two years are going to be awful, just going to be awful. And my view is this election is a referendum on the President. And nothing else matters except getting the gavels back into the hands of Democrats, whether you are talking in the Senate or you're talking in the House or both. Because that is the only way we can set the agenda. Because when you have the gavel, you set the agenda. And the president is setting the agenda and Congress is rubberstamping everything he wants. And the only way out of that. So from my point of view the only thing really at this point is to unelect some people.
Swanson: Right.
McDermott: And it's not easy because the problem is that people are, people say, "I hate the Congress but I like our Congressman. He's a good guy. He's really a good man." No! You want more of Bush, you vote for him.
Swanson: Right.
McDermott: You've got to vote against so and so.
A DEMOCRATIC FUTURE
Swanson: But Bush will still be here even if there is a Democratic majority. I don't know if he'll start vetoing or if he'll keep doing the signing statements, but . .
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