Snowden: There is a limit to transparency. We don't need to know the names of every target. We need to know the broad strokes of a program. It's no longer a question of who do we trust. Do these people represent our interests? Google has rolled out a new end-to-end encryption campaign as part of the "Reset the Net" campaign. We are past the point where citizens are entirely dependent on governments to defend our rights. We don't have to wait for them. We can do it now.
JPB: In the early days with the EFF, we were in a ismilar position to the NSA. John Podesta invited us down to his office. I pointed out to him - "You have an economy that is going to blow up that will not work unless it's a trusted economy. If you do somethign to that, the consequences to national security from an economic perspective then that will blow up." They don't consider that until they are forced to. The NSA allowed strong encryptography only because the EFF came in and proved that it was speech.
[applause from the audience]
That wouldn't work now because the Justice Dept went in and lied to the Supreme Court and the Court is happy to maintain its position on verdicts where it was lied to.
Snowden: Even our secret courts are being lied to. The judiciaries are getting bolder. How do we correct these bold mistakes in policy we have inherited? They have ended up undermining our constitution. We need judges to stand up and say "this is not right". These are the people that decided that instead of investigating criminals they will investigate us.
We need to think about what makes us successful in terms of national security. We are spending 75 billion dollars on spying. Do we need to do that? That's more than education, health, and science. Do we need to be collecting the communications of everyone in America or do we need to be educating America?
JPB: Are we beginning to get our money's worth for that 75 billion? I can't think of a single major event that the intelligence bodies of the US called correctly.
Snowden: This is a tough one. We can't say that no spying is good under no circumstances. They can't predict the future. The 9/11 commission determined that we already had the information we needed but we didn't know how to use it. Unfortunately, the data collection programs instituted after 9/11 piled more data on top of the haystack that we already didn't understand. The 75 billion dollar programs are making us less safe. Other people can get into those back doors built into those programs. It doesn't make sense.
JPB: It doesn't make sense. Even the people in charge of the senselessness are impotent in the face of it. I consulted with the Navy some years ago. The general I spoke with felt that their tools were ill-equipped to fight the war on terror. How do we stop the juggernaut?
Snowden: We need to have a comprehensive response to the failure of institutions domestically and internationally. The reason government exists is to champion public interest. Government agendas don't represent public need. When it comes to a fight with dollars, Lockheed Martin and Booz Allen Hamilton have more than you. Everyone here needs to remember that we have to vote. We need to be campaigning against people who aren't representing the public interest.
JPB: One of the things you are spared is the palpable sense of despair that I feel in regards to those elections. I care very much about the processes of democracy. John Gilmore asked "Did you vote?" and I just laughed. The fact that I would laugh at that question for the first time in my life is not a good sign.
Snowden: The quality of the candidates seems like we have to choose between the lesser of two evils. That's not good for the country. Parties don't represent our interests. We need citizens who are not --professional-- politicians who represent public interests.
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