BT: Oh, very close, tight knit. Almost one and the same thing.
DB: So, there's, in your mind they're essentially no separation between the private corporations making the weaponry, and the military, buying and using it.
BT: Absolutely. I mean, they're so intertwined, all the way up through the leadership. And at every level that they've almost become ... General Dynamics has almost become an appendage of the United States government, as is any other contractor.
DB: That is very interesting. So say a little bit more about that. How are these private contractors now heavily interwoven into the fabric of the military? How does that work?
BT: Well, you've got the revolving door. You've got generals and other officers that move back and forth from the military and then enter civilian life. They have contacts in the military ... you get all the way up to the corporate level and these guys are working on each other's board of directors, etc. They're part of the elite corporate state, at that high level. They have a certain amount of budget, they need to spend. There's very close relationships between officials on the government's side and within the defense contractors.
DB: Now, say a little bit about how Edward Snowden influenced you. What about his actions inspired you to stand up and make this extraordinary statement: "I have always believed if every foot soldier threw down his rifle, war would end. I hereby throw mine down." Those are strong comments from somebody who was just working at General Dynamics.
BT: Yeah, Edward Snowden is, in my opinion, extremely courageous for what he's done. And when I listen to that second video that Glenn Greenwald put out, the second part of the interview from Hong Kong and I heard him say those words about, "I joined after Iraq, I didn't like what I was seeing," I'm paraphrasing badly but it was almost like my words coming out of his mouth. And I was just so awed that he risked his life basically ... let's be honest, certainly his freedom, for a very long time, to let us know from the inside what's going on. He turned conspiracy theory into conspiracy fact, basically.
We all had kind of a general idea that we were being spied on constantly. It was just something that, yeah, yeah, wink, wink, nod, nod ... they're watching us all the time. But I don't think we've had anything this substantial or in-depth before, and also the way that they are handling it, both Glenn Greenwald and Snowden, is very impressive. They're putting on quite a battle. Maybe not the right word, but...
DB: And, in terms of your work inside General Dynamics, and your disillusionment with the war effort, is this reverberating inside the company? Are there other folks who you worked with who have these concerns who are becoming more and more jittery that they may be engaged in not a democratic effort but perhaps if you think of this in the context of the drone program, that you are actually engaged in supplying an extra-judicial assassination squad? Could you talk about that?
BT: Yeah, sure. You know, I spoke very little about what I was thinking to other people within General Dynamics.
There were a couple of close friends that I had conversations with saying, "Hey, did you see what happened yesterday? Did you see about the drone program? Have you seen Jeremy Scahill's new movie? Did you see "The Dirty War" expose in BBC Arabic, etc., etc.?" I didn't get really much of a response. It's almost like a willful turning away from the actual events, within the company. But I have heard from a couple of people within the company since I've left that it was quite shocking. In fact, they were trying to figure out why I did it, what happened, and some people have expressed that I've made them look at things in a different way, which I was very happy...
DB: These are people still working inside General Dynamics?
BT: Right.
DB: Did it seem like they were interested in learning more, or becoming more active, or concerned to that point?
BT: It made it sound like they were becoming more aware of what was going on. I didn't really get into too much depth with them about things.
DB: You say that you are no longer a foot soldier in the war. What does it mean to you, to resign? What do you think you are leaving behind, and what will you be able to offer in terms of your experience, to the world. Your words are very powerful. Something about your experience perhaps that Americans don't understand about what you're doing and about this relationship that you've been a part of?
BT: Yeah, you know when I decided to do this I thought to myself "Oh, I can slink off into the shadows, and find another job, and that will be the end of it." But I felt so strongly about what I was seeing, and what I was doing, and what I was a part of that I wanted people to hear my voice, because I actually believe in Thomas Paine-type democracy. Right? I wanted to get it out there, if anybody didn't listen, that's fine. But at least I had said my piece.
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