Tags for This Article:

Media (3123)  Obama-Barack (2025)  Democratic (1772)  Money (1173)  Corporations (898) 

Populum Tag Cloud
       Control Panel
Fine tune your search to access content
Articles
Diaries Products
Events All
All time
Last 6 mos
Last month
Last week
Last 24 hrs
From:
Month  Day   Year

To:
Month  Day   Year
Alphabet
Popularity
Count ON
Count OFF
This Level
Sub-levels

 

 

 

Tag(s): ; ; ; ;
Add to My Group
February 20, 2008 at 10:31:40

Obama Doesn't Take From "Special Interests?" He's Not correct

by Timothy V. Gatto     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

www.opednews.com

 

Tell A Friend

View Ratings | Rate It  

The media is all abuzz with this presidential primary race between the two Democratic contenders. They are so excited and I’m feeling like a zombie. I can’t watch the television or go on the big websites because I am thoroughly disgusted, and so totally not interested. I don’t care what kind of “spin” they put on these two politicians; I can’t stand either of them. If it’s not totally clear in every Liberal/Progressive’s head’s by now, it really should be. These two candidates represent just about everything, and everyone that we have been screaming about since Bush came into office.

Let’s get down to the real nitty-gritty on this campaign. We all know that campaign finance is just about the biggest problem we have. We are constantly reminded of this every time we read or hear of the cost of running a successful bid for the White House. It’s fact that the candidates this cycle have outspent the previous candidates in the last Presidential election. We should realize that it is all about money. It’s not about our money however; it is all about corporate money from the Military Industrial Corporate Complex. Many people get a knee-jerk reaction to that phrase. Let me clear the air and present some facts that will underscore exactly what I am saying here; that there is absolutely no difference between the three corporate candidates that the MICC media has presented to us. Oh, by the way, Mussolini’s definition of fascism; corporatism.

Let’s see where these candidates get their money to convince you to vote for them;

Hillary Clinton;

Goldman Sachs $413,361 Morgan Stanley $362,700 Citigroup Inc $350,895 Lehman Brothers $241,870 JP Morgan Chase & Co $214,880 EMILY's List $213,266 National Amusements Inc $210,010 Kirkland & Ellis $179,676 Greenberg Traurig Llp $177,800 Skadden, Arps et al $167,796 Merrill Lynch $165,042 Cablevision Systems $145,313 Time Warner $144,977 Microsoft Corp $143,459 Bear Stearns $141,835 Latham & Watkins $138,598 Patton Boggs $137,200 Ernst & Young $126,865 PricewaterhouseCoopers $121,939

Barack Obama:

Goldman Sachs $421,763 Ubs Ag $296,670 Lehman Brothers $250,630 National Amusements Inc $245,843 JP Morgan Chase & Co $243,848 Sidley Austin LLP $226,491 Citigroup Inc $221,578 Exelon Corp $221,517 Skadden, Arps Et Al $196,420 Jones Day $181,996 Harvard University $172,324 Citadel Investment Group $171,798 Time Warner $155,383 Morgan Stanley $155,196 Google Inc $152,802 University of California $143,029 Jenner & Block $136,565 Kirkland & Ellis $134,738 Wilmerhale Llp $119,245 Credit Suisse Group $118,250

John McCain:

Merrill Lynch $155,950 Citigroup Inc $153,362 Blank Rome LLP $141,401 Greenberg Traurig LLP $130,587 Goldman Sachs $85,252 Univision Communications $82,000 IDT Corp $79,250 Bank of New York Mellon $74,000 Bridgewater Assoc $72,100 MGM Mirage $70,400 Irvine Co Apartment Community $66,100 JP Morgan Chase & Co $65,485 Credit Suisse Group $65,000 Pinnacle West Capital $64,000 Lehman Brothers $63,450 Wachovia Corp $58,675 Cisco Systems $56,650 Morgan Stanley $55,701 Blackstone Group $47,950 MacAndrews & Forbes $45,000

Mike Gravel:

Floor Surplus inc $2,550 New Perspectives Quarterly $2,300 Jim Stork for Congress $2,300 Decode Biostructures $2,008 Mitchell Gold Co $2,000 Hewlett-Packard $2,000 Exxon Mobil $2,000 Paypal Inc $1,695 Worldwide Media $1,500 Internet Communication $1,000 Urburn Univiersity $1,000 Ogim $1,000 Crisis Consultants Group $1,000 VOTEC Corp $1,000 Pictures Inc $1,000 Hypertone Inc $1,000 Apple Inc $1,000 Witness for Peace $1,000 American Ecology Corp $1,000 Treeman Inc $875

Is there something a wee bit fishy up there? Seems like the same people are financing the same “top three”, Is it me being suspicious or is it really true? By the way, these contributions are from employees of these companies that give and are “bundled” together by their employers. Are they being patriotic? Some of these corporations aren’t even American corporations!

Let’s look at the Military Industrial Complex:

Election Cycle 2008*

Total Contributions $9,307,088

$2,819,665 Contributions from Individuals

 1  |  2

 

http://liberalpro.blogspot.com

Tim was banned from the site for posting private email from the publisher to him on his blog, and then attacking the publisher and the site in emails and articles. OEN has no responsibility to publish articles from people who attack the site. Tim's accusations that he was banned for his political positions are untrue. Check his articles. He repetitively wrote about and had published exactly the things he claimed he was banned for doing.
Former Chairman of the Liberal Party of America, Tim is a retired Army Sergeant. He currently lives in South Carolina. A regular contributor to OpEdNews, he is the author of Kimchee Kronicles and is currently at work on a new novel.

Contact Author
Contact Editor
View Other Articles by Author

 

Bookmark this page: (what's this?)

NETSCAPE      DIGG THIS      Add This Page to Mr Wong!           NEWSVINE      DEl.ICIO.US      Looksmart Furl      My Web      Tag!RawSugar      Blink List     (More...)
Comments: Expand   Shrink   Hide  
67 comments

I am a Canadian politiphile with a special interest in the American empire.
deliaI am a Canadian politiphile with a special interest in the American empire.

Precisely

And don't forget the Perpetual War Portfolio:

click here

Americans are pretty much in denial, so Americans will get the president who will do the best job of keeping them there.

by delia (0 articles, 1 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 112 comments) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 at 10:59:59 AM
 


My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

ardee D.My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

Excellent work, Tim

I do see the Obamaniacs in the light of those who are so desperate for change, any change, that they suspend their intellect and continue to drive on emotion. A very sad way to choose a candidate, in my opinion.

All the facts, and you did great work in showing these supporters that their candidate is all talk and no walk, will not sway these people. So sad for our nation.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 at 11:23:49 AM
 


A sentient being trapped in the American political diorama.
coyoteA sentient being trapped in the American political diorama.

How in the world

could one come to that non-sequitir of a conclusion Mr. Shaw after having read, if you did, and analysed, which you obviously didn't or won't, this piece which gives you the plain truth in easy-to-read numbers.

It's easy to see how cultic are the adherents of the Democratic Party in such a comment and how ironic it is that they are the ones who so piously claim moral superiority over the Republican faithful.

There is one party in this country with two right wings. It is the modern imperious liberal who is in fact the main obstacle to any susbstantive change in the American political landscape. 

Thanks for the piece Mr. Gatto. It seems too much truth does not go down well with the Obama kool-aid. 

by coyote (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 73 comments) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 at 6:51:27 PM
 


I'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.
Michael ShawI'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.

Mesmerized loyalist?

You must be joking! Obviously sir you haven't read any of my articles. What are you doing to solve these many problems beyond emersing yourself in the idea you are smarter than everyone else? Yes you moan and complain than attack those who see other possibilities than your own. But when push comes to shove, you're really like everybody else, just another opinion on two legs.

by Michael Shaw (7 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 330 comments) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 12:22:06 PM
 


My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

ardee D.My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

Look up projection in your funk and wagnall's

Many here give and take, you are not one of them. You accuse me of exactly that which is most wrong with your own character...But thanks for trying.

You comment upon my political work without the faintest damned idea of what I do in my community. You contribute only blind and misplaced loyalty to your party and again and again dismiss the opinions of those who do not do so. Physician heal thyself.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 3:09:01 PM
 


I'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.
Michael ShawI'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.

And you sir

are so enscathed by your radical ideology(and hate) that you would rather spend your time attacking me then moving along to a rational discussion. I've already presented my reasons to drawing the conclusions I have, while you on the otherhand haven't even promoted a basic idea has to how we can solve these problems. Apparently attacking a candidate is in itself enough. That and basically calling whomever does not an idiot. But this won't stop campaign finance as it is, it won't stop the war, it won't turn around the economy or save the environment and most importantly, it won't get rid of the greatest obstacle to all of those things, the neocons and their 2% support base.

by Michael Shaw (7 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 330 comments) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 5:24:53 PM
 


My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

ardee D.My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

Dude, your nonsense is close to raving now

I have enough posts in this forum for anyone not an agendised clown to know full well the politics I espouse. I am a Green Party advocate, an advocate of third party politics in general because neither of the two major parties in this country work to benefit the general public.

You have a history of rabid defense of the Democratic Party, an inability to come to grips with the fact that more and more of us on the left no longer buy into the corporatist line they espouse, the complicities they offer Bush and the GOP,and the incompetence they have displayed since attaining the majority in the legislature.

Rather than debate point by point you jump on your dictionary, proving only that you can spell not that you are at all politically astute. You can ignore what I post, you can defend your own position but you cannot expect knee jerk compliccity with your own unique political loyalties. You are simply a .....edited for compliance with Rob's new policies...too bad to.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 5:54:21 PM
 


My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

ardee D.My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

A final note

Your desperation is showing, and perhaps something a bit sadder as well. Where in hell do you get off saying I have never expressed an agenda. You are so freaking clueless as to be unworthy of further dialogue. All you do is defend your turf, and you do it with a complete lack of finesse and grace. Then you accuse others of your own failings, what a maroon!

Sad little fellow really. If only this forum had an "ignore" function, I would be rid of your sophomoric crap...alas.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Friday, February 22, 2008 at 7:01:19 AM
 


I'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.
Michael ShawI'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.

Well Coyote

I have read the piece and stand by my statements but at the same time I wish I had added the real reasons as to why I believe Obama is so popular. And no I didn't drink the Obama coolaid either and see myself as settling on him rather than endorsing him. The reason why Obama is so popular is not because he is so enigmatic or even the best candidate. It's because after thirty years of conservative mismanagement, when the hopes and dreams of the lower 98% have been shattered. whether substantative or not, the word" change" is a dynamic in all of this. Change is a softword for revolution and many people are in that frame of mind. When successful, promising societies like our own, that had been based on the New Deal, literally creating a middle class comes to a screeching halt, people come to the realization there is no hope and when that happens violent revolution generally takes its place.  I believe hope is the last bastion of sanity in this nation and Obama represents that at the moment. Should he win and fail to address the plights of the average citizen, then hold on to your lug nuts!

by Michael Shaw (7 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 330 comments) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 12:15:33 PM
 


I was born in Los Angeles and raised in Mexico City. I have travelled throughout Latin America, Europe and Arfica. We're all the same.
GuajolotlI was born in Los Angeles and raised in Mexico City. I have travelled throughout Latin America, Europe and Arfica. We're all the same.

OBAMA SPE CIAL INTERESTS

So what. He's done more for this country than you ever could. Its easy to point the finger, but the questions arises, what are your motives?

by Guajolotl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 131 comments) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 at 11:24:39 AM
 


About the author: welshTerrier2 believes all citizens must focus on restoring power to the people. Corporations control our agenda. They promote war. They export our jobs to the lowest bidder. They pollute our air and water. They promote laws to benefit their greedy shareholders at our expense. They control the puppet politicians through their campaign contributions. They control the mainstream media.

The dual disasters of global warming and a bankrupt national Treasury demand rap...

to see more of bio, click on member name

welshTerrier2About the author: welshTerrier2 believes all citizens must focus on restoring power to the people. Corporations control our agenda. They promote war. They export our jobs to the lowest bidder. They pollute our air and water. They promote laws to benefit their greedy shareholders at our expense. They control the puppet politicians through their campaign contributions. They control the mainstream media.

The dual disasters of global warming and a bankrupt national Treasury demand rap...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Some Additional Data

Take a look at the following information obtained from the OpenSecrets.org website. The data below compare, by industry, campaign funds received by Clinton, Obama and McCain during their Senate campaign runs starting in 2003 through January, 2008.

Ask yourself these questions after reviewing the statistics:
1. Which party is the party of big business (hint: they both are)?
2. Do you believe campaign cash has a direct impact on legislation and policy?
3. Do you believe either Clinton or Obama is free to act on behalf of the American people instead of catering to corporate America?

Here are the four industries that contributed the most campaign cash broken down by candidate. The information was obtained from OpenSecrets.Org.

(Note: All amounts rounded to nearest million)

Communications/Electronics:
 --- Clinton: $6,833,000, Obama: $5,239,000, McCain: $1,271,000

Finance/Insurance/Real Estate:
 --- Clinton: $18,574,000, Obama: $12,567,000, McCain: $5,866,000

Lawyers and Lobbyists:
 --- Clinton: $14,452,000, Obama: $10,633,000, McCain: $2,789,000

Miscellaneous Business:
 --- Clinton: $10,828,000, Obama: $7,375,000, McCain: $2,394,000

How can liberal Democrats decry the infusion of corporate cash into the political process when both Clinton and Obama have received more industry campaign cash than their Republican opponent? How can the Democratic Party be the “party of the people” when they, too, are funded by corporations and their lobbyists? If you're an advocate of "lesser of the evils" voting, understand that you're endorsing a corporate-funded agenda.

Click here to read the full article. 

by welshTerrier2 (7 articles, 3 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 105 comments) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 at 11:34:00 AM
 


I'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.
Michael ShawI'm a concerned, middle aged blogger and member of the ACLU. I hail from the Bay Area. I Lobbied congress with the ACLU over the more unconstitutional elements of the USA Patriot Act. Marched in peace protests, lost a former school chum in the world trade center on 9/11.

You should have made one thing perfectly clear

Hillary Clinton receives more MIC money then any of the candidates and Obama the least. It seems the MIC are abandoning the republicans for Hillary. This only means that the military industrialists think she'll win over McCain and that they consider her more approachable than they do Barrack Obama.

by Michael Shaw (7 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 330 comments) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 at 2:20:28 PM
 


concerned citizen of planet earth
erik mouseconcerned citizen of planet earth

We have Clinton McCain and Obama to choose from because...

They are the ones that have the most money.  Elections are driven by money.  If you want real reform, disconnecting money from elections would be the first step.  Entering public office should be like joining the priesthood.  Upon entering all personal wealth is seized and sealed with 100% financial transparency for the duration of tenure.  But law and crime, virtue and corruption, good and evil are all subjective.  Employees of large corperations are thankfull for their influence over government.  As much as I would like to see the end of all nation aggression, it is difficult to ignore the fact that alot of families in the heartland of this country are fed by the profits of the MID.  For every DU shell that falls in the middle east that causes a birth defect, there is a family in TN that has health care (including prenatal) that is provided by it's manufacturer.  Long story short, there are too many of us.

by erik mouse (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 106 comments) on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 at 12:09:36 PM
 


I am a freelance artist and a podcaster...... I live in Minnesota and my current political heroes are Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, and Cindy Sheehan. My favorite broadcast journalists are Thom Hartmann and Amy Goodman. I have a common sense approach to liberal politics and I don't like wild leaps of logic from the left any more than I like it from the right.
Shelly ThomasI am a freelance artist and a podcaster...... I live in Minnesota and my current political heroes are Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, and Cindy Sheehan. My favorite broadcast journalists are Thom Hartmann and Amy Goodman. I have a common sense approach to liberal politics and I don't like wild leaps of logic from the left any more than I like it from the right.

What's the answer?

If you don't mind I'd like to quote this in my podcast. What I can't figure out is how to fix this endless corruption-money cycle. It gets worse every time there's an election and each new president owes more to more corporate influences. Obama claims to be for "instant runoff voting" but how could that be true when he's the benefactor of the lack of it, as are most politicians in office. 

by Shelly Thomas (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 16 comments) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 5:57:44 AM
 


concerned citizen of planet earth
erik mouseconcerned citizen of planet earth

42 42?!

I was going to give you the answer in terms of what America should do.  Then I realized that every country in the world should do these things - 1.  Build and mantain a strong manufacturing base  2.  Make education the largest slice of the tax revenue pie insted of military  3.  Create a 'manhatan project' of engineers and scientist, but not to create an atomic bomb, but to creat alternative energy sources.  Every successfull money making scheme in history started with an idea.  Ideas (good ones) come from creativity, creative people.  Countries should do all they can to cultivate the creativity of their citizens.  So I guess the answer I have is -get smarter.

by erik mouse (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 106 comments) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 8:21:51 AM
 


My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

ardee D.My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

One quibble

Do you really believe a manufacturing base a necesity? Times change, buggy whip manufacturers turn into automobile factories and in turn are replaced by software firms. Technology is the key to the new US economy. That we are no longer a builder of much is not a problem, let the third world emerge from their abysmal poverty through factory jobs. We can make billions in ideas alone.

I would suggest that a government effort to retrain those who have lost their factory jobs is a great idea. But to bemoan a lost mill or plant to a nation where the average wage is 25 cents an hour is to waste ones time....

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 6:00:46 PM
 


concerned citizen of planet earth
erik mouseconcerned citizen of planet earth

Yeah, I still think a manufacturing base is important

The reason is education.  Although you are correct, we should be able to move past being a manufactuing country and export our expertise but we can't.  We can not because our pubic education system does not teach the skills necessary for a service (technology)  driven economy.  In fact, most pubic schools are teaching the same skill set today they were teaching in the 50's.  To compete with the international market on service (technology) schools should be teaching 4+ years of computer science... mandatory.  Chemestry classes, biology (that isn't held back by god crap) are also necessary.  The whole focus of our education system should be changed.  Today there are minumum math requirement tests (no child left behind) but they should include things like regular expression and variable length subnetmasking.  But you see without these things our youth is not prepared to be comepeditive in a service economy.  "but that's what college is for" Bullshit!  Fewer and fewer people can afford college.  And a broken education system takes a generation to fix (way longer than an election cycle)  so while those changes are being made you still need to employ folks.  20 years ago if you were putting yourself through college you could work a construction job, or factory job, landscaping, janitorial, food service, a government job, or retail.  Today all there is left is food service and retail. 

We need a manufacturing base because although we should be a service economy not all of us are not prepared to be.

by erik mouse (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 106 comments) on Friday, February 22, 2008 at 2:22:51 PM
 


My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

ardee D.My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

I cannot agree in total

While I did note that retraining for the lost jobs should be a government responsibility, paid for possibly by the reinstitution of tariffs upon goods manufactured by those who have offshored their facilities, I do not feel as do you about the lack of educational opportunity here.

I am a case in point. After having been out of university for decades a career change necesitated further education. I obtained a degree in electronics and went on to a successful career in that field. While the NCLB legislation is a blatant attempt to turn our public education system into one that trains only for the fast food industry it has not succeeded all that well, not yet.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Saturday, February 23, 2008 at 8:46:39 AM