Greatly Despised but not by All

While I see your point and generally agree, it is interesting to hear the words of Tanzanian President Kikwete:

"I know you will leave office in about 12 months' time. Rest assured that you will be remembered for many generations to come for the good things you have done for Tanzania and the good things you have done for Africa. Your legacy will be that of saving hundreds of thousands of mothers and children's' lives from malaria; preventing new HIV infections and giving hope to those infected through care and treatment; enabling millions of young men and women get education; last but not least, a legacy of assisting African nations and peoples build capacity for their own growth and development."

 Perhaps the lesson is that it is easier (and cheaper) to make friends than enemies.  Too bad that this is the rare exception rather than the rule among our presidents, particularly this present one.

by Ian Lynch (13 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 9 comments) on Monday, February 18, 2008 at 1:03:13 PM
 

Wanna bet...

someone on Bush's staff wrote that testimonial?

by Rob Kall (869 articles, 4016 quicklinks, 345 diaries, 1847 comments) on Monday, February 18, 2008 at 1:07:09 PM
 

For Presidents Day....

AMC should run Clint Eastwood's "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" flashing pictures corresponding to the appropriate President 24 hours straight.

Maybe it would work clock work orange style and America would get it.

by Michael Morris (18 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 302 comments) on Monday, February 18, 2008 at 1:26:19 PM
 

Need for balance

I get concerned at the level of vitriol expressed on blogs. I feel as much outrage as anyone at times but I think it important to temper our remarks and have perspective. Bush is a war criminal, I agree, but I think to compare him to Hitler is unwarranted. Some distance is necessary here. Nearly every President since America became a great world power has engaged in some aspect of crimes against humanity. And before that, many Presidents presided over atrocities, including those we might think of as "great" such as Teddy Roosevelt. And Carter was no saint either, whether in his campaign or while in office.

After the Vitenam War I harbored a tremendous rage against America. It took me many years, and I am still in process, of viewing this culture and nation realistically, strengths and weaknesses. We have been through a dark time, one hopefully we will emerge from soon. America has seen these periods before. Therefore it is inescapable that what we LOVE about America is intertwined with the SHADOW of America. Often we forget that these two aspects dance hand in hand.

All nations cherish their mythology. Sometimes it is hard when one sees more clearly than the mainstream. But isn't to rail against what one sees as "dysfunction" vehemently without some open heartedness playing the same game as one's "enemies" except we just substitute content? Therefore "energetically" don't we just offer up more emotional violence into the soup? Often I'm as gulty of this as anyone.

President's Day has lost most of its meaning in consumerism. But for anyone who loves this country on the left, might it not be a good day to look  at what is good about this place, the resilience I believe still exists here to cleave to its principles in spite of the onslaught of its shadow self? I am concerned when we demonize completely anyone, even those as odious as Bush and Cheney. This is a theme I will return to often in various forms.

by kenstory (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 11 comments) on Monday, February 18, 2008 at 2:44:27 PM
 

comparing to Hitler

I was only comparing Bush to Hitler because, besides Bush, Hitler was the most hated man on earth, not because Bush did similar things, just that Hitler and Bush bother "earned" the enmity of billions for whatever it was they did.

And sure, it's good to talk about positives. But it is also good to approach things with balance, including Presidents Day, which was founded to celebrate dead presidents we've honored. What's wrong with proposing a re-assessment that includes educating kids about the plusses and minuses of these leaders?

by Rob Kall (869 articles, 4016 quicklinks, 345 diaries, 1847 comments) on Monday, February 18, 2008 at 4:36:57 PM
 

Educating the children

Of course I would agree with your desire to provide a more varied, rich, honest assessment of American history in schools, less mythologically oriented. But that was not the emphasis of your post. Let's look at the tone of your rhetoric in several places.

"George W. Bush is not only the worst president in US history, he is the most hated, despised person in human history. (There were several billion less people on the planet when Hitler lived. ")

If you want to use the technical argument of numbers, you can juryrig your argument to be correct. But imo its inflated hyperbole driven by emotional excess. This is the core of what I'm objecting to, even though I myself indulge in it. Last night I was yelling at David Frum on Larry King because I think he is a weasal, but what I might write for publication in assessing his impact would be different than my dislike of the way he operates and what he has contributed to the problems of the Bush administration. Believe me, I loathe what Bush has done, and believe he has engaged in criminal activity, but to date he is no Hitler or Stalin (or Amin, or Pinochet) although one could argue that the US tends to ceate genocide by proxy-ala death squads. Which is another, much deeper examination of the shadow side of American life and its relationship to our national myths and the rest of the world.

So, a more valuable argument in my eyes is to examine how Bush (and others) exemplifies America's shadow and where does this shadow exist in all of us that alloweed it to happen, as it has happened before. I just tivo'd the PBS special on Kit Carson, who among other things, created a "scorched earth" policy in dealing with the Navajo. So this strain is not new in our country.

"On the other hand, America has had its share of fools, failures and sell-outs for president.  Maybe we should celebrate presidents day as a day to be extra careful watching your back, making sure you have the right to vote, making sure you are not being ripped off while you're distracted with something else going on."

Well here's a balanced view of American history. I'm concerned about the level of cynicism and vitriol. Polemics are fine, but what does this attitude really contribute except to vent hatred?

"Yep. I think the thing to do is to end presidents day as a school holiday. It should be a day when kids are taught a civics lesson in all the ways president have **screwed up and screwed the USA.** Oh, they could also study Jimmy Carter-- an example of how to leave the presidency and do an even better job with the balance of one's life."

"Screwed up and screwed the USA"? Is this what should be taught. There's a big difference between the above and the more appropriate "What's wrong with proposing a re-assessment that includes educating kids about the plusses and minuses of these leaders?"

 See the difference?

Venting is OK. Outrage has its place. But when venting and rage become the norm, I am concerned. I admit I find it very challenging to keep a center and a sense of perspective. A great example would be Andrew O'Hehir's excellent review of Peter Beinart's "The Good Fight" on Salon about a year ago. Unfortunately its a subscriber site for most of the good articles.

I want to make it clear again that I find the actions of this gang and most of the Republican leadership odious and that they should be in jail. But a larger argument(not to be discussed now) is what is the relationship of the collective to it leadership? As a wise man once said, if a madman walks off a cliff and 300 million follow, how much is the madman to blame?

I appreciate greatly the work you have done to create this site and the passion you bring to your opinion. My question is does the venom released help solve or perpetuate the underlying problems of violence, domination, and demoniztion so prevalent in the world?

by kenstory (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 11 comments) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 at 12:16:23 PM
 

Education!

 Rob, you hit the nail on the head with EDUCATION! If we actually taught all of our kids the truth about our Presidential and Nations history, mixed in with some honest world history, along with some current events, maybe our future elected officials will make knowledgeable decisions based upon fact, and not foul the entire Earth spewing their ignorant venom from the gut. Maybe too, the people will be smart enough never to elect a bush ever, ever, again. Censorship is our greatest threat and both bush and hitler used it well.

by Garry (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 30 comments) on Monday, February 18, 2008 at 3:33:50 PM
 

Oh, I don't know

that the comparison with Adolf is so inappropriate... I imagine that for the many Iraqi and Afghani mothers holding the decimated remains of their children in their arms after American attacks (to assert global hegemony and to control oil, etc.), the comparison (were they to know about Hitler at all) may begin to appear not so far fetched.... 

And as for another possible comparison... i.e.,  with the Reich..... do the many millions dead due to direct military action or covert machinations over the last 50 years count in the global run off for 'which nation is the greatest evil of them all' ? America might lose that contest in terms of sheer numbers dead.... but hey, what's a few million more or less? I guess it's good that the dead can't talk.

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 905 comments) on Monday, February 18, 2008 at 7:33:56 PM
 

Thoughts

For a long time I harbored a great antipathy toward America and blamed it for the world's ills. Tnen a pretty smart friend said to me that America was a player, albeit a very big one, in the world game and not the source of evil.

 Rather than comparing America to Hitler, et al, I think a more useful measure is to acknowledge (as is most often done here) the shadow and ask how is this prevalent in all or most nations of the world? The Amercan myth is to deny the shadow, which usually is the provence of conservative thinking. But here often we have the opposite, which is to only see or emphasize the bad. Both are dualistic thought processes which don't assess the strengths and weaknesses of our country.

It is kind of easy for countries which aren't power nations to be less involved in these more nefarious aspects. And it is good that those of us that take American ideals seroiusly feel often betrayed. But it is not a realistic picture of who we are or our history.

Almost ALL countries display horrendous behavior at times, if not now at some point in their past. The African nations, who are poor, are rife with violence. Spain may be fairly benign now, but wow, what a genocidal history when theywere a world power.

by kenstory (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 11 comments) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 at 1:33:52 PM
 

What about Herbert Hoover?

When we got Jimmy Carter, there was plenty of worry about the economy. He wanted us to put on our sweaters and sit in front of the fireplace, and I wondered if we drew another Herbert Hoover. What do engineers know about public administration!

Perhaps there's little resemblance in their administrative styles, but both do not rank high in current popularity polls.

Some years back, my husband and I visited West Branch, Iowa, which has Hoover's library. It was new to me, since I had not been there since the 40s when we college students spent weekends teaching English to Jewish refugees at Scattergood, the Friends Meeting House. My husband, a Californian, liked Hoover and seemed to forgive him for the depression more than I did, despite his having it rougher in a city than I did where we grew our food.

In his last years, President Hoover lived at the Waldorf Astoria, and no one seemed to pay any attention. I don't suppose anyone realized his name graces institutions which prevail, although history relegates him to a dreadful economy.

by Margaret Bassett (33 articles, 2029 quicklinks, 30 diaries, 1357 comments) on Monday, February 18, 2008 at 9:34:21 PM
 

Wasnt it meant to honor both

Lincoln and Washington, while giving the working folks a three day holiday? I have never considered this day one that honors all our Presidents yet suddenly it seems that everyone is assuming it does.....

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 at 6:26:38 AM