But a large proportion of the American people are not very savvy about these things, and all they need to hear is “tax rebate”, and they’ll jump for joy, and vote for anyone. Politicians pandering as usual. Not looking for real solutions.

Obviously, one way to fix the economy is to pull out of Iraq now, and use the savings on infrastructure projects in the US.

What chance is there that Democrats will try that? Zero.

So, tax rebates, here we come, and there goes the debt way above $9 trillion.

by John R Moffett (89 articles, 18 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 697 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 9:09:40 AM

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The US government invested a shipload of money in Iraq and they did it for good reason. They have now illegal access to the Iraqi oil, billions of dollars worth. Of course this will mostly benefit the superrich, but it will also help poor americans because the oil price will stay at an acceptable level.

It would help much more if the government would simple admit they are robbing another country and stop terrorizing the population of both countries with their phoney stories about terrorist organizations which they clearly organized themselves.

by Han (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 228 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 7:02:52 AM

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because getting this nation in more debt, paying higher interests will certainly not help.

What we need are job training programs in which the apprentice is paid while learning on the job, we need subsidized day care so that people can afford to go to work, we need new apprentice programs that would train carpenters, plumbers, electricians, health care workers with a provision that they give back in kind to their community.

We need to put America back to work and create social services for those who are unable to work .  Let's put our money where it would do the most good.

Athena

by Athena88 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 23 comments) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 11:07:16 AM

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do not want America to work.... at least not until we are ALL well and truly serfs to the elites. It is well past time for doing something a bit more drastic.....

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 1359 comments [400 recommended, 8 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 6:23:19 PM

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DRASTIC WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT, A WORD LIKE THIS , YOU COULD LOSE YOU HOUSE, YOUR FAMILY CAN LOSE THEIR HOUSES, YOU FREINDS COULD LOSE THEIR HOUSES, YOUR BANK ACOUNT, ALL YOUR MONEY, YOUR WIFE, YOUR KIDS, EVEN YOUR DOG, HAVE YOUR FINGER NAILS PULLED OUT ONE AT A TIME, MAY BE WATERBORADED, INJECTED WITH A POISON, THIS WORD IS ON THE TORROREST LIST. AND THIS IS CALLED BRAINWASHING.

JUST JOKING, BUT THERE IS A POINT TO THIS MADNESS. 

by RICHARD SHADE (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 460 comments) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 3:14:19 AM

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I sometimes worry that the only solution will be to let the bubble 'pop' and let all the bad air out. In the past it seems that every attempt to 'fix' the issue is somehow manipulated, the bubble is 'patched' and we pump more bad air into it.

Granted, it is horrific to think of the downward slide we will take if it (the pop) does indeed come about. However, it might take wide spread cold and hunger to sharpen the civic responsibilty and participation of the average US citizen.

I quickly assert, it certainly isn't my choice, but it might be necessary. Certain things, once they have broken completely, can't be 'fixed'.

Rob, keep up the good work. I do, and will, 'appreciate' your endeavors.

K'ny

by Kahnaya Wasahtoha (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 28 comments) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 12:15:22 PM

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THE BUBBLE NEEDS TO POP, A RECESSION IS A BANDAID, A DEPRESSION IS A CURE. AND IN THE END A NEW AMERICA WILL RISE, HOLDING HANDS AND SMILES EVERY WHERE.

(" WE ARE CURED")

OF THE GET GET GET,MORE MORE MORE, THANK YOU GOD.

by RICHARD SHADE (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 460 comments) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 2:05:50 AM

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Part 1:  Where do taxes go?

Part 2: How does this help your future?  Answer here: _

by Daniel Geery (26 articles, 95 quicklinks, 126 diaries, 912 comments [27 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 1:47:07 PM

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That's right Daniel, and never mind the idea that just because a persons religion is against War, doesn't mean the US government won't stop taking money from your check each week to fund their wars. Freedom of Religion exists in America? Not a chance. It's the very reason I left for China to find a job, and knowing I would not support their War with my tax money, as they disregard my religion.

And getting back to the solution to our current mess, these war trolls think a quick fix, tax rebate stimulous package is going to work is ....I am still laughing,,,is a joke,,,no not a joke because really it's not funny,,,but a essentially sad,,,because their bag of tricks only contain those worthless solutions,,,that in my opinion really never worked in the first place. If they really worked why do they keep on using them to fix the problem. We have always had a housing problem. It's just now the War in Iraq has magnified the situation.

This is the solution, and it is not tightening loans to the public, or giving pennies which tax rebates do, when we need to be giving dollars.

 The 2 Loan Mortgage Statue Stability Act

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 6:41:45 PM

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"Bottom line-- there are no simple solutions for our problems. Attempting simple solutions will delay serious interventions that have a chance at succeeding."

Amen and pass the plate. Easy and quick fixes are a way of life in Congress. As you mentioned in the article, giving away money as a means of stimulating the economy is without foundation.

It would be necessary to "give" people the money each and every month forever.

We treat symptoms as if they were problems. How did the U.S. reach recession to begin with? I'll take a guess; perhaps lack of viable employment? This results in no pay on Friday. So the solution? Send money for a government that has no money. Easy.

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 2:16:31 PM

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Americans are proud of their unfettered 'creative destruction' capitalism, supposedly superior to every other types capitalisms in the free world. Americans, especially the neo-con, hate European and Canadian 'defeatist' 'socialized' capitalism. Traveling around the States in the 90's, I frequently heard how America's corporate elites will come and save the world when 'defeatist' capitalism bankrupted Canada, much of Europe, not to mention how they will 'buy up' China.

So after 20 years of 'creative destruction' capitalism, here is the current situation:

- A middle class reduced to third world status, up to their eyeballs in debt
- A 1% rich class owning 25% of all wealth, and shipping ever more of it overseas where it is safe
- A national government deep in $9tn debt, a private sector debt of $5.5tn, and need to borrow ever more just to pay the interests
- A currency drop in value by 50%, a chronic trade deficit that has no hope of ever fixing due to rotting out of industrial base to produce products and shift to service which cannot be exported
- As if that's not enough, we now have a large population who demands bailout after burning their own houses. Amazingly, we have a neo-con Administration who actually offers to dig the hole deeper with a government bailout of people who screw themselves by their own unfettered greed and stupidity!

Americans are creatively destroying America. The economic system should be renamed as 'Dig holes as deep as possible, then dig deeper and faster when in trouble.'

The Bush Iraq war is all about control of the region for economic exploit. But that didn't work, leaving a trillion-dollar spending hole with no compensating return. Keep digging the domestic economic hole and soon America will have to start a real world war as the country goes down in flames. That's exactly what Hitler Germany did in the 1930's.

by TomK (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 330 comments [22 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 2:19:15 PM

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You forget the $53 TRILLION unfunded debt! When Bush is forced to appear on TV and tell the nation that we are in economic trouble...it's far worse than one may imagine. Perhaps a few million additional immigrants might do the trick.

This one is for real and Middle America may not survive intact. 

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 3:53:56 PM

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"My financial buddies and I have  lied and stolen too much, too fast; so we're going to give a little of it back to you."

by Edward Ulysses Cate (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 232 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 4:18:36 PM

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The fixing of the economy is going to be, if it is ever done, like pulling a wisdom tooth without anesthesia, ouch!. It is simple math, but very complicated politics. Government, like any of us, has to learn to live within its means, and we must realize that every time we get something from government, we are paying for it directly or indirectly. When for political expedience, government starts spending more than what the providing of basic services require, there are only two ways the money needed  can be obtained: more taxes or deficit spending. Taxation is the forceful garnishment of the product of your labor, by a group in control of the  power of the state, to be distributed as that group decides is the best way. Deficit spending is the way the politicians force you to repay in the future the debt they incur today to give you something that realy can not be afforded. Who is going to say: hey guys, we can not afford everything we want?. It is easier to demagogue the issue and talk about taxing the rich and helping the poor. Notice that many of those talking about how selfish are the rich usually are rich, or would like to be rich? Give humans to much power  and they will end up abusing it, we can not give anyone or any group, political or economic, the power to control the economy, when that happens only a few benefits and the rest suffers. To correct the economy requires the free market to work, within a legal system that protects everybody's rights and prevents abuse from the government or the private sector.

by E J Antunez (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 9 comments) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 5:22:12 PM

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For a good time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAwvlDJgJbM 

by Jeanette Doney (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 307 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 7:22:36 PM

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This tactic was done 33 years ago by then President Gerald Ford. Please remember that in the early 1970's the US economy was in a recession, we were experiencing double digit inflation ( remember the WIP buttons....wip inflation now!) & our manufacturing was was beginning to move south.... as in Mexico. My Treasury  Dept. cheque was $50. which I spent on taking a much needed vacation. As I recall, on my 1976 Federal & Ohio Income tax forms, I had to report this rebate as income! More than likely about $20 of  it actually went back to the government  as income tax! I 'm afraid the same thing is in store again. If the rebate becomes taxable for the following year, you may be giving  as much as 50% of it back to the Federal, (your) state & local governments, depending on your tax bracket & income for the year. Folks, I have spent over 40 years studying economics, even earned a BS in the subject & let me tell you now, this is not going to work one bit! The economic problems this nation is now experiencing go back to almost the turn of the 20th century. It can't be explained in a few paragraphs. It requires a knowlege of both economics & history & unfortunately most Americans are ignorant of both topics. There are going to be no easy solutions & keep in mind there may not be solution. We are dealing with a social science (sic) were there really are no right answers but we're really going to be in trouble if there is a wrong answer(s).

by iman (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 89 comments) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 8:31:57 PM

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 What you see is what you get.  OUR GOVERNMENT ASKED FOR THIS.  Also Banks and Mortgage corporations are at fault. (they should never have given people with bad credit loans and morgages. Bush has done  a job on middle class america. his tax brakes have helped the wealthy in america. also he has helped corporate america  with corporate wealfare. HUGE TAX refunds. our no good congress  has passed the free trade agreement WITH ON REGUARD TO JOBS being lost to south america. BUSH SAID IT WAS A GOOD THING FOR JOBS TO BE OUTSOURCED TO OTHER COUNTRIES. he said its good for there economy? Boy what a dipshit. Bush and Chaney's war in Iraq have taken a toll on our economy. If it was not for this unjust war in Iraq america would have over (2.6 Trillion dollars that could be put back into the economy. and create more jobs.) well we the people have to kick ourselves in the behine for letting this happen. we elected a MORON not once but twice. bush got left  out with BRAINS. he dont have any. people we are in very bad shape. i dont know if america can recover. we have a 10 Trillion National Debt. cosumers owe over 5.5 Trillion debt mostly in plastic. THE VERY BAD PART IS A WAR THAT IS FUNDED BY BORROWING FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. we are broke. no money honey like little richard says. the 1920"s will not compare to what is going to happen. i say good bye america. unless we can get people with a brain to figure out how to get us out of this mess. one thing our run away government can not afford to keep spending every penney america has (STUPIDLY). and stop these idiot wars.

by vincent passiatore (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 185 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 9:59:28 PM

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Why do people always blame people with bad or poor credit risk? You know if the economy was so great those people would make their payments on time. In fact since there are so many people called bad credit risks tells me something is fundamentally wrong with the way the Banks have been doing things for a very long time.  Let' s not blame the people with credit risks, better to show how the bank doesn't  live up to reality by insuring against such risks, and having banking services that eliminate those risks and actually helps people to protect their credit, and promotes their credit worthiness.

Banks do none of this, and so their failings they want to blame the people? Such outlandish BS. Come on Big Bankers you can do a better job than that.

I am not going to repeat myself, with the idea in creating a 2 Loan Mortgage Policy, I have written about it in the above Posts...and so that's what we really need. You know banks don't have to make the money available to the people on the outside, in other words the 2nd loan would be held in a Bank Management Fund, where these funds are strictly used for making payments on the 1st loan. If the banks are worried about losing the money, such as people maybe using it for something else, then make a 2nd Loan Management Fund so money is easily transfered to pay on the 1st loan.

People and Banks will not have to worry about outside economic forces ruining the pay back process to the banks. This creates security and stability. When people have their homes assured of being paid, they can go about doing other things in making money, and creating products for the economy.

Where we fail is when we do not have the 2nd loan policy, and we leave everything up to the production forces in the economy, hoping that we will keep our jobs, and make the needed money to make the monthly payments on the loan. Things fall apart, people lose jobs, they can't sell the home, they have to move. There is just too much pressure on the individual to do all these things, and think they are going to maintain some sort of worthy credit rating. It doesn't work and certainly that is why everything is crumbling, and will keep crumbiling until we pull our heads out of our A$$ AND RECOGNIZE WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE DONE.

We need the 2 Loan Mortgage Policy. Can anyone out there help me get this message across? It's like talking to myself until I am blue in the face. How many letters do I write to Government?  Who ever really hears from the President? I have never heard from him. That is another huge problem in which we are so disconnected from the Government in actually talking to them, and we expect things to run smoothly?

The Bush people have blinders on, they think they are right, and never want to see the evidence on the contrary. Our financiual services are changing from an Equity in acquiring a loan system, to a credit worthiness in acquiring a loan. 

Might as well flush equity down the toilet, because no one ever gets enough equity to outsource the banks available resources to money availability for loans. There is no competition. If you want to compare it then how about comparing a dog sled to a Formula One Race car. That is the striking difference.

We need to sew up the hemmorage, and stabilize the patient, and get this 2 loan policy package unveiled across America's Banking system. We need to go through every loan in mortgage default and make the 2nd Loan Mortgage available and with security in mind develop the 2nd loan Manangment Fund, where the Banks pay the 1st loan from their internal management with the authorized 2nd loan. Hopefully we can consider this repayment plan will benefit the homeowner in making them credit worthy and eliminate the risk everyone mistakenly gives them.

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 12:53:39 AM

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 LOOKS LIKE WE ON THE LAST LAP HEADING FOR CHECKERD FLAG,

by RICHARD SHADE (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 460 comments) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 2:25:05 AM

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I told ya so in Nov. 2006

last week

and yesterday ...before I heard about the Dow Jones slipping. So now that you're wide awake with freshly brewed recession coffee in cup, I can move on to something else. Thanks for listening. Oh, prove me wrong and make my day and yours too.

I think I'll now focus on Frankfurt, the €uro and their DRPs. I've been told they have a failsafe, redundant system that can be "switched" away from the US$ and on to -whatever- at the blink of an eye.....a lot like Network Elements (are supposed to) do on the backbone.

Notice how the theme song at the pResidential Debates has shifted ? Snake Oil. Be sure to getcha some ! Might wanna hide it in the cellar.

by Tony Forest (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 166 diaries, 1429 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 5:45:38 AM

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for a failing Economy............all the reasons for a failing Democracy...........they become very synonymous to warnings of fascism.......take time to read Naomi Wolf's, "The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot".............

My question is.........which will come first?...........

by Ernest (0 articles, 8 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 221 comments [40 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 6:10:36 AM

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