The American Transcendentalist Bridge is Falling Down

The bridge that fell down was not privatized.

Mayors, etc., that seek to privatize roads do so in an attempt to have working roads.  Is that not a laudatory goal?

It may be true (probably is) that a private company is no more able to maintain the road than the government, but you don't seem to recognize that others are trying to solve problems, not just blame new solutions.

If you blame every new idea as a problem, and defend an old system that doesn't work, that you have become a defender of the status quo, not a progressive.  

While others may be trying to capitalize on the incompetence of government, they did not create the incompetence.

What is the principle you are trying to claim?  That giving the State money to do a bad job is better? 

If the system is wrong, then we need to fix the system.  The fear of change is as big a problem as the fear of things not changing. 

Democracy and capitalism as two sides of the same coin.  Where is the progressive agenda? 

peace,

www.behappyandfree.com 

by Steve Consilvio (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 81 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 12:42:38 PM
 

Mowing the lawn...

I don't like mowing the lawn, I do a lousy job, don't have time, and besides I don't even have a lawnmower. So, I hire a professional to mow my lawn. I watch him work and inspect what he does, and if I don't like the way he does the job or the results I fire him and hire someone else. If the job was really screwed-up I'd refuse to pay and sue for damages.

But the gummint has to be different. They have to sell ongoing rights to their (our) lawn so the mower can make a handsome profit. The mower than can afford to hire the retiring bureaucrats and they all live happily ever after. Sounds good, let's do it!

 

by Co6aka (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 68 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 1:22:45 PM
 

LIke I said-- regulations

Recognizing that privatization will probably proceed, what I suggested is that there be some federal rules to protect the assets of the we the people, as in the three items I listed. That's progress, compared to giving it all away for 50 or 75 years without due diligence before the deal.

 

by Rob Kall (807 articles, 3921 quicklinks, 332 diaries, 1702 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 2:40:46 PM
 

Who is watching the watchers?

Rob, What you are saying is that the way to watch the government, which was originally incompetent, is for the government to hire more government to watch itself.

This is a good example of liberal doublethink, and what you don't quite "get" when conservatives complain about "big government."  The government will double the number of people doing nothing, spend more in the process, and make traveling cost more.  This should be regarded as making a bad situation "worser." (The "worse" moniker belongs to those who chose to privatize originally.)

In any case, what we have is a chain reaction of "reaction," (as in reactionary,) not a real solution.

The government prints the money.  How then is it possible for the government to not have enough money?  That is the question you (and everybody else) should be asking.

The system is based on a gigantic contradiction.  Nobody can fix the effect.  The only solution is to fix the cause.

You need to think bigger about these issues, and see how they all fit together, and revolve around money.  The concept of money itself, not who has more or less of it.  Money is just an abstract idea, and gold is colored dirt.  Why should colored dirt be so important?  

Green pieces of paper isn't any different, but with more money in the economy, the bigger the gap between the rich and the poor becomes. Deficit spending, whether on guns, social programs or roads, simply multiplies the problems across generations.  We need to treat the cause and not the symptoms.

 

peace,

steve 

www.behappyandfree.com 

by Steve Consilvio (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 81 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 10:23:29 PM
 

Privatization isn't the way to go

    The point to all this is that the government should be doing a better job of these projects and services. Yes, they're incompetent... but the fact is is that they shouldn't be. Privatization is more of a drain on the taxpayer and only makes well politically connected contractors rich... the excesses of Kellog, Brown and Rice in Iraq should be adequate testimony to that. And any government whether local or national that can't provide proper execution of public works should be drastically overhauled.

   Private contractors operate on a profit incentive... especially massive corporate ones like Halliburton.....whose profit margins run into the billions which they get from the american taxpayer, which they manage by cutting corners and cheating smaller subcontractors and laborers. It's a whole feeding chain that is top heavy. In a properly functioning and relatively efficient government the workers get living wages, benefits and their safety is overseen by regulatory bodies, the quality of work or service itself is properly monitored  .....atleast that's how it should be.

     There is no decent argument for privatization unless the purpose for such an argument is about the abolition of taxation in which case the argument for privatization becomes disingenuous. 

by chariotdrvr14 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 125 comments) on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 8:27:48 AM
 

And it's time to rebuild America's UNIONS!!

We have already seen the ugly hand of privitization up here in CANADA. Why? the NAFTA has seen the demise of every single taxpayer-supported project fall into the hands of PRIVATE Developers, including BOTH national railroads (who built tons of bridges, folks) and our roads as well. So what have we seen?

We have seen (covered up and wallpapered over) nuclear accidents, we have seen environmental damage via chemical spills, we have seen lives lost .. more than occured in Minneapolis I assure you. There is a REASON that Shawn Brant languishes in jail; he doesn't want to see the destruction of Canada's lands and thus he is now a "TERRORIST", granted no bail!  Tying up those who lead against privatized interests leads to ARRESTS!  You may see arrest lists tha will cover many reams of paper after 19th and 20th Augusts up here. Security forces paid for by taxpayers (and mercanies, too) stand guard to protect business interests ...

This is what happens on a political level with the NAFTA, the North American "union", the Security and Prosperity Protocol. Incidentally the RR yards are total toxic dumps, overflowing as the privatizers try to maximize the amount of money the government will pay them to GET OUT! They own plenty of land to move, but they leave their toxic land parcels littering the urban highway areas (Mac Yard, in Toronto, is one example) They also allow the RR workers to die, as labor standards sunk and they didn't want to pay people to retire after 30 years work . they had to wait 35. I cannot tell you how many CN workers I know who are poverty level disability benefit never getting a buyout or real retirement package.  The government comes in to protect the privatizers/corporations and all dissent becomes a crime.

As for roads, the cities which built huge big ring roads has seen them handed over to privatizers. The example here in TO is the highway taken over by a "Spanish" cartel actually owned by Carlyle Group. Ring any bells? The people bringing you the FEMA camps! The companies adminstered by the Bushes.

We simply cannot afford to hand over our fortunes to corporations as they are rapacious and cannot be regulated .. nor can we expect government regulators to regulate; they are too corruptible. We've seen that in Canada. And Mexico surely sees it, too.

So what happens on our roads in Canada then ..? Dig this, when the privatized Highway 407, they had the Province of Ontario collecting the fines for people who didn't pay their tolls and taking away their right to drive their cars! And what do you think happened to those who got fined, via government -- the information went into Choicepoint and other dataminers' info banks. Everything from trips taken to credit card information!! Yes, people were calling their MPPs and got this REPEALED - and the courts ruled it improper. What a lot of work it was too! What do you think is going to happen when they hand out the RFID cards and every trip you make (on rationed gasoline, I might add) is put into a computer ...? thanx to some privatizer who wants YOU to shut up?

Who do you think is leading this march against the disaster for everyone? The UNIONS. They get people to do the endless phoning around, the petition passing, pressing the media to cover the breakdown of public sector services that have been privatized!!

It may be true (probably is) that a private company is no more able to maintain the road than the government, but you don't seem to recognize that others are trying to solve problems, not just blame new solutions.

Private companies have no vested interested in maintaining sane and safe large "public" projects . and they DON'T. They look always for ever bigger profit$; that is their ONLY goal. Why hire a safety engineer over a salesman who brings in more money on the Q4 earnings report. We all know the answer to that. And time has shown you cannot trust the legislators either! We must rebuild the UNIONS. There are two primaries reasons that unions in America have failed ... one is the red baiting of the McCarthy era; the other is this idea that people NOT in them are so damned SUPERIOR. No one identifies with the concept of being a UNION MEMBER -- and lots of jobs never ever got the satisfaction of forming a union when they wanted them. Have you noticed the battles with Walmart? Or MacDonald's? or .... fill in your own blank.

It has cost America so much (and Canada, too) as the elistISM has carried the day. Unions are far, far better to put your trust in than some government regulator. The media has gone a long way to ensure that unions became increasingly demonized. To everybody's cost .. even the elite suffers from this breakdown in services! We do not need "new solutions".

If the system is wrong, then we need to fix the system. The fear of change is as big a problem as the fear of things not changing.

If you blame every new idea as a problem, and defend an old system that doesn't work, that you have become a defender of the status quo, not a progressive.

And that is my point! As we allowed the media to proced with the demonization and defamation of unions, we became totally ineffective progressives. And look where that has brought us today. Those of us who fought the bridge in Minneapolis EVER BEING CONSTRUCTED, let alone remaining up all those years were ardent trade unionists, specifically aware of real safety issues and the threat that government haha regulators posed. We spoke with them and we knew that disaster was down the road. We had each other's backing to rely on .. as we went about our work against private developers.

The point I am making on this is that now is the time to give this self defeating behaviour up and get back to brass tacks and use what actually works. There is a long historical tradition to draw on.

Democracy and capitalism as two sides of the same coin. Where is the progressive agenda?

Yes, where is it INDEED! IF the anti Iraqi war peace movement had pointed out, as the Canadian Labor Congress does, that we have a RIGHT to not make WMDs, to not support wars, then perhaps the past five years of destruction of AMERICAN democracy and the breakdown of services would not have occured. We would have far far greater reward for the actions we take to banish the "capitalist" agenda, for it is truly INSANE.  All antiwar demonstrations are heavily attended by trade unionists up here.  And as that url shows, there is heavay trade unionist support for Iraqi oil workers and longshoremen who face bomb attacks and poor working conditions.  These are the outcroppings of privitazation.

The issue of our time is to be PROGRESSIVE in the old fashioned sense of the word, not allowing for one single instant the defocus off the insanity and unlivability that "privitization" causes. We have seen the handiwork of such corporations here and in Mexico and their apologists and all they do is make the rich/poor divide ever greater. It's time to pick up the progressive traditional TOOL once again, LABOR UNIONS, understanding fully well why they were dismantled.

My "argument" is that, due to the SPP -- which is NAFTA and anti union on the crack cocaine of Homeland Security -- is that people are being quickly radicalized and it's time to go back and make sure our labor unions are STRONG. They are what it going to take to get real safety a realizable goal. It will be simple, but not easy.  Let's make a start by grabbing back the fundamental definition of progressive. Because corporations have been given individual rights under the law, doesn't make them progressive entities. The solution has always been to have trade unions speak up for social justice for ALL.

Virginia 

by ladybroadoak (38 articles, 20 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 390 comments) on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 10:37:07 AM
 

Dude, where ya been?

"...and if they could, they'd sell the right to air."

Dude, where ya been?  LoL!  That started around 1994 with the FCC's spectrum auctions, but all along pretty much no one in the mainstream public noticed or cared. The only "public" recognition was the googles of cash going into the US Treasury, which then went... where? Take a guess: Who initiated the dirty deed, where did they come from, who were/are they/still in bed with, where are they now, and how fat have all of their bank accounts become? Big government and colossal bureaucracy been very good, yes indeed, yum-yum!

Oh boy, if getting screwed this bad wasn't so painful it'd be hilarious!

 

by Co6aka (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 68 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 1:03:03 PM
 

Good Questions

I'd like to know the answers to those also!

Where's a good investigative report when you need them...Vanishing breed.

by MysticGem (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 16 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 4:19:07 PM
 

The Bottom Line

This is why no one in the world should support Privatization of anything...The bottom line...Cheaper Labor...Cheaper Materials...Government that puts limits on the ability to sue for a poor job and "accidents"...

What we need is better pay for the government employees so they can recruit the Best and allow public inspection of multibids.

by MysticGem (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 16 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 4:23:35 PM
 

faulty logic

What you are saying is that if something costs more then it will be better. If true, then why not pay the Private company to run the road?  It will cost more and be "better" as a result, automatically.

Your solution is based on is faulty logic. There is no "best and the brightest" to be had at any price.  The wise will not accept a bribe, but fools are easily bought.

...Also, isn't that the system we have now? The government employees have benefits and pay and luxuries that the people pay for, but cannot themselves afford.  Don't you see the caste system at work?

by Steve Consilvio (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 81 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 10:33:51 PM
 

Privatization

Formerly in Ohio, Liquor was sold by "State Stores". The employees made a living wage and had benefits such as medical insurance, pensions and paid vacations. When the sale of liquor was "privatized" all of the sudden the employees made minimum wage and had no benefits. They either had to work a second job or 60+ hours per week to make ends meet. Now when they become old or sick they are a drag on society and have to collect welfare. Their bosses, however, contribute to the right
political party (usually under the table) and retire millionaires.

by Matthew Peters (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 79 comments) on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 6:12:19 AM
 

privatization rotten idea

usually i respect what you write but boy have you got it wrong this time.Are you not paying attention to what is going on in the world.Corporations are bleeding working America dry.Utilities in the Toledo area are going through the roof because of deregulation.another Republican lie that was to save consumers money.When you sell our water ,air and roads to corporations the only goal they have is to make as much profit as they can for their investors.users be damned.In Chicago the toll road was sold for the inner city and what was a $1 fee  is scheduled to go up to $10 in a few years.Imagining paying $10 to drive 5 miles just to go to work each day.Really sounds great doen"t it Mr. kall.Look what has happened to all the latin america companies who were forced to privatize their electricity,roads,water to get American loans.poor people were driven to desperation in these countries.This was one of Chavezs big campaign promises in  venezuela  to help take back their countries and stop privatization.One letter writer also pointed out that privatization leads to lower pay and no benefits from for profit companies, you will be helping the Republicans lower our living standards by your support for privatization.your stupid argument that Republicans are doing it anyway and we can't stop it smacks of the defeatism that you so often rally agianst.The Republicns are doing it anyway so why not just give in.In conclusion I would like to ask have you been paid off by the corporations to fund your web site.

by liberalsrock (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 117 comments) on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 8:22:51 AM