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June 15, 2007 at 12:14:03

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Hamas Victory is Bush "War Against Terror" Failure

by Rob Kall     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

www.opednews.com

 

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In the spin wars, the Hamas victory over Fatah, in taking Gaza, represents a major failure of the Bush "war-against-terror."

This article uses right wing spin terminology to make extra clear how the Hamas victory can be seen as a major Bush failure. The question is, why aren't the lamestream media putting it that way?



The last few day's victories in violently taking Gaza territory from Fatah is a clear and horrendous failure of the Bush, Right wing "war against terror.

Hamas is an Islamofascist terrorist organization with stated intentions to destroy the nation of Israel. It is funded by Iran and an important part of the Islamist extremists' strategy for violently taking and holding power in the middle east.

Bush and his rubber stamp supporters have long argued that their "war on terrorism" was the solution.

They've argued that the invasion of Iraq was done to protect the US and the world from terrorism.

They've claimed that the Iraq experiment in invasion has made the world safer from terrorists.

They've claimed that the Iraq quagmire was a way to bring democracy to the region.

Now we know. By taking out Saddam, Bush and his military coward sycophants, the ones who chose to keep their jobs rather than tell Bush and Cheney their plans were insane, actually disturbed, no, make that destroyed the balance of power in the region. They handed un-checked power over to Iran. The Iranians have really run with the gift Bush, Cheney, Colin Powell and the other failed generals delivered to them.

How have the Iranians run with this gift? They have supported the Shia faction in Iraq. They've provided massive funding and weapons for Hezbollah in Lebanon, for the Syrians, for Hamas... and of course, they've had a lot of free time to dabble with nukes.

The Hamas victory should be viewed alongside the eruption of violence happening in Lebanon. We can and should expect much more of this.

The Republican presidential candidates have suggested that the future big threat is radical Islamic theofascism. There's some truth there. The problem is, the Bush/Republican policy and model of "the war against terror" has clearly, misguidedly and stupidly increased the threat, worsened the danger and fed the power of the fundamentalist mullahs who have already taken power in too many regions of the world.

The Hamas victory is a frightening beginning of what is to come. Their victory will inspire uprisings and terrorist attacks all over the world.

It will be very surprising if Israel does not, within a short time, do something very aggressive, very violent, in response to Hamas' takeover of Gaza. That is a sad, but not unexpected spiralling effect of the violence.

Even the leaders of the nearby Arab nations are very concerned that this conflict will lead to further destabilization of the region. The should be. It is surely going to cause them grief. Iran will get guns to the fundamentalist insurgent elements in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the Arab Emirates, Dubai, Qatar, Lebanon, Turkey, Malyasia, Indonesia... and there will be more violence.

There is little hope of peace, of resolution of disagreements, even of cessation of escalation of hostilities so long as Bush and Rice are running things. They have proven to be not only incompetent, but also uninterested in moving towards peace. On the contrary, they are accomodating the rapture-ready religious fundamentalists in the USA.

 1  |  2

 

Rob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is also published regularly on the Huffingtonpost.com and is a columnist with Northstarwriters.com. He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump speeches and debates. He recently retired as organizer of several conferences, including StoryCon, the Summit Meeting on the Art, Science and Application of Story and The Winter Brain Meeting on neurofeedback, biofeedback, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology. See more of his articles here and, older ones, here.

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A writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

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Mark SashineA writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

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Rob

Would it be prudent to  consider that  the current administration never wanted any peace in the Middle East or elsewhere.  If war is so good for them why should they want to stop it elsewhere?  I  understand that it is not easy to digest but why won't you consider that we have mad people at the helm and then  they have their own mad  methodology, which is also abused by the crooks.  Rice and company did everything in their power to create   the Gaza problem even when it was not there. It is is  all done to  practically  reignite the  fire again and again. Those people, they are drunk with power. Rice  most likely  just cannot   let it go: running around, telling people what to do,  seeing that people depend on her.. pushing people.  They are friends to no one and enemies of everyone. And what is the worst- they are our  leaders. May God have mercy on our souls, Rob, because venom seems to spread.

by Mark Sashine (54 articles, 19 quicklinks, 252 diaries, 3605 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 1:04:52 PM
 


Rob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is also published regularly on the Huffingtonpost.com and is a columnist with Northstarwriters.com. He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump s...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Rob KallRob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is also published regularly on the Huffingtonpost.com and is a columnist with Northstarwriters.com. He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump s...

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Easily

We just published Uri Avnery's article assessing the situation, Crocodile Tears for Gaza, and that's what he concludes, pretty much.  The main goal of this article was to show that Bush's terrorism protection claims are empty, that he's failed.

Of course, the US, Europe, Canada, Israel have all played a role in producing the violence in Gaza. 

by Rob Kall (869 articles, 4016 quicklinks, 345 diaries, 1847 comments) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 at 7:33:06 AM
 


I live in the Pacific Northwest and I am interested in current affairs.
JOHN LORENZI live in the Pacific Northwest and I am interested in current affairs.

Your article was spot on

There was a book written years ago entitled THE TRAGEDY OF AMERICAN DIPLOMACY. in which the author made the thesis that American leaders and the American people have always had a 'tin ear' in their understanding of other cultures, and therefore make egregious miscalculations in foreign policy.

Iraq and now the recent takeover of Gaza by Hamas illustrates that the US leaders haven't a clue and always support the wrong people, and miss the pulse of the peoples over there.

Supporting Mahmoud Abbas, who is viewed there as a puppet of Israel and the USA, was a big mistake of the Bush Administration. Also, the surge has in Iraq is a similar misreading and has only helped Al Qaeda linked insurgents to grab ahold in even more areas.

by JOHN LORENZ (17 articles, 89 quicklinks, 67 diaries, 220 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 1:43:05 PM
 


I am a retired (disabled) electrician. I worked in the agricultural field as an irrigation specialist. I am 60 years old and still married to my high school sweatheart. We have been married for 41 years. I have 5 grown chrildren and 3 grand chrildren.  We live on a boat in Seattle.
DCDobbsI am a retired (disabled) electrician. I worked in the agricultural field as an irrigation specialist. I am 60 years old and still married to my high school sweatheart. We have been married for 41 years. I have 5 grown chrildren and 3 grand chrildren.  We live on a boat in Seattle.

Hamas

Hello Rob,

I wrote to you back when Israel launched the war against Lebanon. I was amazed that you were allowing pure propaganda and terribly false articles to be posted on your site. The article that really set me off was about Hezbollah taking dead babies out of hospitals and putting them in bombed out buildings and taking photos of them to falsely show the world what Israel was doing.  Well the photos were not staged as your poster claimed and she also had other inaccurate articles on your site. Even though I disagreed with your actions I continued to contribute monthly to your blog.

I considered stopping my contribution because of your blind pro Israel stance.

If you can't see that the USA is copying Israelis tactics in Iraq and doing the same thing to Iraq that is being done to the Palestinians I can no longer support your site. Please stop taking out the monthly 5.00 from my account.

I am going to support Buzzzflash. They do not compromise their site with pro Israel propaganda.

Hamas is not a threat to me or you.  The American empire is the threat and unchecked power is going to destroy the USA as we have known it

by DCDobbs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 15 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 1:51:46 PM
 


Rob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is also published regularly on the Huffingtonpost.com and is a columnist with Northstarwriters.com. He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump s...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Rob KallRob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is also published regularly on the Huffingtonpost.com and is a columnist with Northstarwriters.com. He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump s...

to see more of bio, click on member name

try reading what I write and publish

PErhaps you don't want nuance or varied perspectives.

I routinely criticize Israel and AIPAC. THIS particular article was all about attacking the Bush spin doctors who claim he is winning the war on terror.  

OpEdNEws is one of the few places that allow criticism of Israel and advocacy of Israel and Criticism and advocacy for Palestine. You want a site that avoides the issues or sides one way or the other.

Regarding your paypal cancellation, you used a handle here. I don't even know your name. YOU started the contributions. You need to log in and cancel.  

by Rob Kall (869 articles, 4016 quicklinks, 345 diaries, 1847 comments) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 at 7:39:47 AM
 


I am a retired (disabled) electrician. I worked in the agricultural field as an irrigation specialist. I am 60 years old and still married to my high school sweatheart. We have been married for 41 years. I have 5 grown chrildren and 3 grand chrildren.  We live on a boat in Seattle.
DCDobbsI am a retired (disabled) electrician. I worked in the agricultural field as an irrigation specialist. I am 60 years old and still married to my high school sweatheart. We have been married for 41 years. I have 5 grown chrildren and 3 grand chrildren.  We live on a boat in Seattle.

Reply

Good Morning,

You show your bias by using the right wing phrase islamofacist and refering to Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorist organizations. You seem to have forgotten that  the PLO has a history of attacks on innocent bystanders that dates back to the 70's and 80's. Fatah is another name for the PLO. Most of the world looks on  Hamas as an insurgency. They have not attacked anyone but Israel.

Since Bush gave the green light to Sharon to do as he pleases with the Palestinians, Israel has slaughtered women and children by the thousands.

Israel has destroyed farmers crops, sewer systems, water systems, roads and continues to carve up the West  Bank.

Your fear of Hamas is very much misplaced.

As I stated before the USA is doing to Iraq exactly what Israel is doing to the Palestinian. Keeping them poor and in fear of what is going to happen the next day.

I like nuanced and thought provoking articles. But I also want articles that are accurate. If I wanted what you think is fair and balanced articles on Israel and the Palestinian issue I could go to Fox news and get it.

I signed up to make contributions on your web site and you might consider a way to opt out off of your site.

Have a Good Day

Doug Dobbs

by DCDobbs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 15 comments) on Sunday, June 24, 2007 at 11:04:18 AM
 


I am a retired (disabled) electrician. I worked in the agricultural field as an irrigation specialist. I am 60 years old and still married to my high school sweatheart. We have been married for 41 years. I have 5 grown chrildren and 3 grand chrildren.  We live on a boat in Seattle.
DCDobbsI am a retired (disabled) electrician. I worked in the agricultural field as an irrigation specialist. I am 60 years old and still married to my high school sweatheart. We have been married for 41 years. I have 5 grown chrildren and 3 grand chrildren.  We live on a boat in Seattle.

reply

Hello Again 

Buy the way this article alone did not prompt my response. You had terribly biased articles with purely right wing lies on your site after the Lebanon war. I wrote to you about them at the time. I considered at that time stopping my contributions, but decided against it because of authors like Missy Comley Beattie to name one on your site. I will still read your site, but because of my limited funds I will support other sites that I think treat the Palestinians fairly. You should read her article from June 16th, Calling Evil By It's Name.

Thank You

Doug

by DCDobbs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 15 comments) on Sunday, June 24, 2007 at 11:32:46 AM
 


I live in the Pacific Northwest and I am interested in current affairs.
JOHN LORENZI live in the Pacific Northwest and I am interested in current affairs.

i agree, but....

It seems to be more than a question of just power mad right wing leaders. I think there is a vast swath of the American pujblic, especially below the old Mason Dixon line, that think in an authoritarian, anti-foreigner, jingoist way.

Bush, Rice, Cheney, et al, are just the poisonous flower of this deeply rooted American hubris, ignorance and unwillingness to think before they act in a kneejerk jingoist fashionthat furthers the cause longerm of our enemies.The tragedy is, they THINK they are the guardians of the American way. They are in complete denial; in perfect hermitically sealed circular reasoning. Those who disagree are 'traitors' and they really believe that.

The Islamic fundamentalists are the Middle East equivalent of American right wing republicans. Fanatic, unyielding, convinced they and they alone are right.

by JOHN LORENZ (17 articles, 89 quicklinks, 67 diaries, 220 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 1:51:56 PM
 


I'm a retired person from the construction industry, covering more then I'd like to list. My hobbies are building anything that looks interesting. Football is my fav. sport with the Sleelers my team. My best fun is watching our local Div. 3 football team, The Mount Union Purple Raiders. I'm long time married and my passion today is making every effort to convince people that they may be supporting the wrong person. My favorite music is what people call Jazz and old rock and roll. My ...

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drasileI'm a retired person from the construction industry, covering more then I'd like to list. My hobbies are building anything that looks interesting. Football is my fav. sport with the Sleelers my team. My best fun is watching our local Div. 3 football team, The Mount Union Purple Raiders. I'm long time married and my passion today is making every effort to convince people that they may be supporting the wrong person. My favorite music is what people call Jazz and old rock and roll. My ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

War Against Terror Failure

Has anyone mentioned that what we just witnessed happening in the Gaza territory is exactly what, it time will happen in all those states that claim to be a democracy.  Iraq, yea Bush baby, in time Islamic and we were foolish enough to allow them to hold elections that gave the enemy political power. Was this a misjudgment, or did they believe that his phony friends would gain power.

by drasile (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 77 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 2:23:58 PM
 


The author a human who has made a important discovery."I'm just happy to be here..."  
RoageThe author a human who has made a important discovery."I'm just happy to be here..."  

Losers Deserve It

We mistakenly believe that material superiority makes a difference in the "winning" of wars.  This is a lesson, that sadly, we are going to learn at a terrible cost.

by Roage (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 53 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 4:52:21 PM
 


I am a simple man of eclectic interests and tastes with no particular academic credentials. I still perceive, think, read and write somewhat. Writing music is a hobby of mine

banned for abusive email to an editor

"Hoss" David P.I am a simple man of eclectic interests and tastes with no particular academic credentials. I still perceive, think, read and write somewhat. Writing music is a hobby of mine

banned for abusive email to an editor

Over Thinking is a Trap

It's simple really.

There's PROFIT in CHAOS.

Israeli Arms dealers are so greedy they help arm Fattah

American arms dealers are so greedy they now publicly arm the SUNNIS and GOD knows who else!

IRANIAN arms dealers are so greedy they are suspected of arming both the Taliban and Kharzid Government in Afghanistan.

OIL PROFITS, enhanced by CHAOS.

BANKING PROFITS, enhanced by War financing

MUNITIONS PROFITS are off the charts.

CHAOS is GOOD for business.

by "Hoss" David P. (51 articles, 5 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 338 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 6:46:45 PM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

It's not just profit --

It's divide and conquer, specialties of nboth the CIA and the Mossad -- and probably many others. Unscrupulous politicians do that even to their own nations -- that's the source of the greater part of the so-called liberal/conservative divide. False flag operations and funding of factions is a part of that too.

We can read the PNAC material and see the plans and goals laid out fairly clearly in the US; if you read what the early Israeli zionists said you find much the same -- the question of how to get rid of the Palestinians so Israel could be a 'Jewish state' It's all there if you look for it, or listen to what people like Halper and Pappe say.

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 at 4:06:10 PM
 


I am a simple man of eclectic interests and tastes with no particular academic credentials. I still perceive, think, read and write somewhat. Writing music is a hobby of mine

banned for abusive email to an editor

"Hoss" David P.I am a simple man of eclectic interests and tastes with no particular academic credentials. I still perceive, think, read and write somewhat. Writing music is a hobby of mine

banned for abusive email to an editor

To Conquer?

So there is some other ultimate reason to divide and conquer and spreading chaos other than power or profit? Some other gain from exploiting the resources of foreign lands? I see.

So profit is just some unintended collateral effect of the what I will now guess is the Ego stroking gratification of Empire?

I'll stick with my original assessment thank you very much.

by "Hoss" David P. (51 articles, 5 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 338 comments) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 at 4:25:17 PM
 


I am David 'Shadow' VelasquezI'm an american expat living in Belgium.I have three kids and a dog. I sculpt in copper, bronze, paper maché. I have a serious fire fetish as I enjoy spinning fire poi and staff. I play guitar, bass, keyboards(although not so great on the ivories) -and singI've been writing songs and poetry for as long as I can remember.I've played in a number of bands since 1977. As the former lead singer of 80's band Necropolis Of Love I've rec...

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chariotdrvr14I am David 'Shadow' VelasquezI'm an american expat living in Belgium.I have three kids and a dog. I sculpt in copper, bronze, paper maché. I have a serious fire fetish as I enjoy spinning fire poi and staff. I play guitar, bass, keyboards(although not so great on the ivories) -and singI've been writing songs and poetry for as long as I can remember.I've played in a number of bands since 1977. As the former lead singer of 80's band Necropolis Of Love I've rec...

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I understand

 ...using the term 'islamofascism' as in turning the phrase back on those that have coined it and exploited it to justify their pursuing global war against middle eastern nonchristians for american petroleum interests and israeli self interest. I understand the realities of not letting religious extremists like Hamas, the Taliban and the ever cited universal bogeymen, Al Qaeda  gain  ground.

    Except that, everytime that we reiterate favorite political trigger words as are currently being bandied about this election season ...we are inculcating the concept of anything islamic as being inherently evil or hostile.

    Hamas or Iraqi insurgents or even resurgent Taliban aren't rising simply because of a religious or cultural trait, if that were so then you'd have to add all semitic peoples,... but it is because we are there. Or because Israel is there with Bush's full support... but that in and of itself isn't a reason for Hamas to do what it's doing. These are acts of desparation. Mahmood Abbas is seen as a collaborateur. The Fatah (meaning:'victory') party is the last vestige of power that the multiparty PLO had... at this point they're regarded as being synonymous with corruption and collaboration. And while Israel has been mostly reacting to recent rocket attacks by the border of the Gaza strip... their reprisals have been anything but surgical. Hamas has mainly played upon the frustrations of the people in the territorities.

    Elsewhere... as long as the US or any foreign military force has a presence... it will provoke reaction and give extremists fodder to exploit the hunger of impoverished youth. 

   Iran? that's a whole other kettle of fish. Most iranians aren't that extremist but the governing religious councils have banned most centrist politicians. But again, as long as we are there we are like an invading organism we will be drawing  the local antibodies. Look at the example of the Kurds... they want autonomy and we've played to their self interest but everyone else doesn't want them to have autonomy... not the Shia, not the Sunnis, not the Turks.... we've armed them and trained them and drawn the ire and violent reactions of all other factions that have traditionally kept them powerless.

      Honestly, ...I sometimes think that if the Israelis want Hamas to lose influence they'd have  completely change tact. As one palestinian was quoted as saying " I'll support whoever puts bread in my mouth!".... imagine if instead of starving them out Israel started undermining Hamas by feeding Palestine.

by chariotdrvr14 (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 136 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 6:55:30 PM
 


Rob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is also published regularly on the Huffingtonpost.com and is a columnist with Northstarwriters.com. He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump s...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Rob KallRob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is also published regularly on the Huffingtonpost.com and is a columnist with Northstarwriters.com. He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump s...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Islamofascism, Christofascism, Judaeofascism

All the right wing extremists are bad news. We have them here in the US. They are, almost everywhere a minority. Like I said, perhaps we need to declare a war against all of them. They are the same, just mindlessly following, misinterpreting and abusing different holy books.

by Rob Kall (869 articles, 4016 quicklinks, 345 diaries, 1847 comments) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 at 7:43:41 AM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

not really fascists, though..

They are extremists, but driven more by self-defense, nationalism, ideology, and also religious beliefs -- mixed to some extent, and touted to gather followings to some extent -- but although there are surely greedy people involved they are not driven by fascism in the sense of the mix of corporations and government. Judaeo-fascism and Christian-fascism is quite possible, but Islamo-fascism is almost an oxymoron because the tenets of Islam tend towards socialism, so Islamism or Islamo/extremism is probably a better term in all cases. For the Jews, extreme nationalism can be termed zionism; Christian extremists tend towards the dominionists or crusaders (although the original crusades were largely about land too, with only the eldest sons being inheritors and his siblings being left in the lurch). There may be other words for Muslim extremists -- but if so they would most likely be in Arabic, and I don't of any, other than some specific sects.

 

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 at 4:15:44 PM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

You say this as if it were a bad thing...

"Hamas is an Islamofascist terrorist organization with stated intentions to destroy the nation of Israel. It is funded by Iran and an important part of the Islamist extremists' strategy for violently taking and holding power in the middle east."

But it's not exactly the case. From wikipedia

"According to the US State Department, the group is funded by Iran, Palestinian expatriates, and private benefactors in Saudi Arabia and other Arab states.[19]

[...]

However, various sources, among them United Press International,[54] Le Canard enchaîné, Bill Baar, Gérard Chaliand[55] and L'Humanité[56] have highlighted that Hamas' early growth — before its official founding and the creation of the military branch — had been supported by the Mossad as a "counterbalance to the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)". Furthermore, the French investigative newspaper Le Canard enchaîné stated that Shin Bet had also supported Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO and Fatah, in an attempt to give "a religious slant to the conflict, in order to make the West believe that the conflict was between Jews and Muslims", thus supporting the controversial thesis of a "clash of civilizations".[57]"

Maybe -- I don't have time to research it now, and I've forgotten most of what I did previously,  but I would never take a US State department as being truthful. Hamsa is Sunni -- so I have to wonder if Iran is funding it. The Saudis are more believable -- they are not fond of Iran.  Also, the administration (and PNAC) has been trying to demonize Iran for some time now, accusing it all sorts of things as a prelude to attcking it.

Certainly there are Muslim extremists in Hamas, and the organization is very much against Israel, and want it destroyed as a state. That's understandable considering that Israel has been destroying Palestine as a state.

"But in 2004 Hamas offered a 10-year truce, or hudna, in exchange for several conditions including a complete withdrawal from Israeli-occupied territories (see below)." (from wikipedia).

Israel (Sharon especially) has always disrupted an attempts for a truce, or for a genuine peace process. Israel is under control of the zionists who want the land, and to rid themselves of non-Jews.

Hamas is really a reaction to Israel's actions, only formed in 1987 after many years of Israeli abuse of Palestinians, and it attracts the most extreme elements, of course. That's result of polarization and oppression. Hamas's, success, both in elections and in the military actions,  is a result of the failure of the US and Israel to seriously pursue peace, and the efforts to corrupt Fatah, and weaken the PLO -- or perhaps it should not be characterized as failure, but rather the success of bad policy and wrongheadedness by crazy politicians.

 

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 9:25:51 PM
 


Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me
pratliff94Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me

No Joy in Mudville, today, or in Israel, or in Palestine

Rob,

Hamas and the neo-cons have a lot in common.

There is nothing in your article with which I disagree. Hamas is a terrorist organization which has sworn the absolute destruction of Israel which means the organization declared active war on Israel from their birth.

Israel would be fools to make any agreement with Hamas that does not begin with the words that the war against Israel is over forever, and that Israel has the right to exist as a nation among the nations.

The silliness of saying we want to have a ten year truce with Israel so we can have time to recover and strengthen ourselves and then we will make sure Israel is going to be destroyed is not going to happen.

Hamas now has the responsibility to provide for one million four hundred thousand Palestinians living in Gaza. Hamas has vowed the Gaza government will be ruled by Sharia Law. They only have two open borders, Egypt and the Sea. They cannot set up military or police check points with Israel for she does not recognize Israel's existence.

Hamas, also, has the full responsibility providing a judicial system, an economy, an educational system and a health system for one million people.

Let us see how well they do it without the West Bank and without Israel.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 969 comments) on Friday, June 15, 2007 at 11:03:56 PM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

you should read

Uruknet tonight. There are several articles dealing with this subject.

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 at 12:14:08 AM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

Not so simple

"Israel would be fools to make any agreement with Hamas that does not begin with the words that the war against Israel is over forever, and that Israel has the right to exist as a nation among the nations. "

There are few articles around that deal with this, but look at this way:

Would Hamas or any Palstinian organization be fools to make an egreement with Israel that don't being with "The war against Palestinians is over forever and Palestine has a right to exist as  a nation among nations"? Israel has insisted on the opposite. Palestine is not a viable nation -- a nation at all yet -- and Israel has worked hard to stop that from happening.

And what of Israel's borders? It has resisted having set borders, but rather been stealing land, establishing 'facts on the ground', and allowing settlers to inaded even the little land left for Palestinians. It's a two street -- or it's continuing war; Israel has decided on continuing war because it thinks it can win. They do not bargain in good faith. Their policy is to divide Palestine into Bantustans.  Israel is the aggressor, Hamas is a reaction to that.

The truth may be unpleasant, but it's still the truth, and if it's not recognized then the troubles can never end. (Same thing with American aggression.)

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 at 10:52:34 AM
 


Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me
pratliff94Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me

What a laugh.-- It is simple.

The statement that Hamas was supported by Mossad…. "before its official founding and the creation of the military branch — had been supported by the Mossad as a "counterbalance to the