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June 14, 2007 at 09:04:55
Death by vomiting on ER Floor; Murder Weapon: Denial of Universal Health Insurance by Rob Kall Page 1 of 1 page(s) |
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The Latina who died in the ER, Edith Rodriguez, writhing in pain, on the floor of LA's King hospital blood, was not only killed by the heartless inaction of the doctors, nurses and staff on duty there.
An LA spokesman said that "even the janitors doing an elegant job of cleaning up the vomit did nothing to help her."
Rodriguez was also killed by America's failure to enact universal health care via single payer.
She would not have died in any of the first world countries that have universal health care.
Why are the lamestream media failing to recognize this?
One can only guess that she was turned away for one reason-- lack of insurance.
The news networks are playing the tapes of the 911 dispatchers rejecting calls for emergency help. They should be following up on the recordings with commentary on the failure of the health care system. Instead, they are reporting that ERs don't have enough money. Blame that on the health care system too. That's a health care system that starves the health care providers too.
A toxicologist on CNN comments, "The problem here is the bureaucracy and the administration may have prevented her from getting care.But also, if she'd have gotten help sooner, she would never have gotten to this point."
The CNN reporter, minimizing the issue, comments, "We could go and on about the insurance, and all of these things..."
You see, universal health care is not only not sexy, it's tied to Hillary and her failure to pass it back in the early nineties. Keep in mind that she failed because the for-profit health insurers spent millions running advertisements preying on citizen fears.
Edith Rodriguez is a highly visible case. But there are an estimated tens of thousands of people who die because they don't have health insurance. Compare that to the victims of 9-11 or the 3500 troops who were killed in Iraq. These victims were killed to-- by lobbyists, politicians and health insurance corporations. Where is the outcry. And for Edith Rodriguez, let's be sure that the right people and entities are accused.
A strong majority of Americans WANT universal, single payer health care.
Opponents cite how the Canadian health care system makes people wait. They don't mention that Canadians live three years longer. It's worth the wait. We need to put pressure on our legislators-- at state and national levels-- to pass laws making Universal health care happen now.
Legislators failure to respond to this desperate need, affecting close to 50 million Americans, are contributing to the problem, accessories to murder, in cases like Edith Rodriquez and the tens of thousands of others who die and the hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions whose health is not what it could be if they had health care.
Yes, calling them accessories to murder is severe. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Rob Kall is executive editor, publisher and site architect of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, more...)
The views expressed in this article are the sole responsibility of the author
and do not necessarily reflect those of this website or its editors.
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| 83 comments |
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long overdue
thanks rob - single payer is long overdue for a multitude of reasons. but, as far as the opponent's claims that canadians have to wait longer than we do, i'm not even sure that's true. i lived in canada for a year in the early 90's. i ended up having some health problems and while my husband was working there legally, neither of us were citizens yet i received prompt and comprehensive health care including all necessary tests and the physician of my choice. i also believe one of the key elements to my recuperation was not having the stress of a health care system that balks at every stage of the game. besides, who here in the u.s. hasn't tried to schedule an appt with a specialist at some point only to be told there's an opening in 3 months. it's time we get those opponents to put up or shutup regarding that overused argument - are there statistics that prove that i wonder? SICKO June 29! by Cheryl Biren-Wright (30 articles, 42 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 485 comments [8 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 9:28:34 AM  (0+)
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Well...
Whoever was the triage nurse on duty that day should be fired. Perhaps she or he already were fired? Anyway part of the explanation may lie in the fact that hispanics are known to be more hystrionic and vocal when ill so the triage nurse and/or any other staff who enteracted with this woman may have downplayed her illness based on that well known racial issue. That is, however, no excuse as any good triage nurse should have known that vomiting blood is a true emergency and the patient should have immediately been taken out of the waiting area, placed in a room on a cardiac monitor, had 2 large bore IV's started, and of course had labs drawn. So my guess is that ER was/is probably understaffed and they probably had a not-so-good nurse in triage that day which is one of the main reasons you never want a bad nurse in triage especially if you are a truly sick patient. Lastly, I agree that universal health coverage is something we need but in publicly funded hospital ER's all patients get treated regardless of whether they have insurance or not and that is the REAL problem. To explain further, local doctor's offices in many instance make you pay prior to treatment so for those who are uninsured they instead have to go to the local ER for a NON-EMERGENCY problem. This leaves the ER's constantly overcrowded with NON-EMERGENCY patients detracting from the care the truly emergent patients need. So do we need universal health coverage? Yes absolutely because that will ease the overcrowding of all the nations ER's. Also I must mention the illegal alien invasion is playing a huge role in the overcrowding of the nation's ER's. cya Ben by Ben Marble, M.D. (23 articles, 0 quicklinks, 230 diaries, 349 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 10:08:03 AM (0+)
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Reply: Since when is it a DYING PERSON'S responsibility...?
Let me get this straight: It is the responsibility of a dying person, if i read this comment correctly, to be calm, rationally let the people that she encounters at the ER know that she is in critical condition, in Good English, and avoid appearing too Latino so as to not be mistaken for a stereotype that exists to some folks (cause I surely never heard of it) of a patient who is overreacting? The luxuries and freedoms of america are so mind-boggling -- no wonder everyone is DYING to come here. The sign at the border should read: "Remove All Evidence Of Latin Heritage or Enter At Your Own Risk. Send Thee, the Homeless Tempest-tossed, to Me." P.S. Panic Attack patients regularly present with racing heartbeat, hyperventilation and the sure sense they are about to die. Is there a stereotype about THAT? Yet they get treated, and not by simply being ignored. I guess that stereotype reads that those patients generally have insurance. by Mars Caulton (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 88 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 11:33:24 AM (0+)
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Reply: Interesting
People glut the ER, massively raising costs and slowing service. I wonder how many billion a year we spend on ER visits that could be better spent on primary care provider preventive visits for people without health insurance. And then there are all the people whose treatment was delayed because of glutted ERs. I wonder how many of those who die, even those with health insurance, are attributed to the root cause of absence of universal health insurance. A lot, I bet. by Rob Kall (953 articles, 4178 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 11:35:52 AM (0+)
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Reply: Imagine
Imagine all the money that we could use for health care instead of funding that bullshit Iraq war on terror. by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 8:52:52 AM (0+)
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Death
A thorough investigation must be made of this tragic affair and if misfeasance is proven then criminal charges should be laid. If there is in fact a duty of care owing from a hospital to a patient or person in physical distress then this hospital is guilty of negligence at the least and potentially manslaughter. by Archie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1757 comments [112 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 10:09:38 AM (0+)
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Boggle the mind!!!!!
I wonder about all the professional doctors and or nurses that stepped over this patient . I am a former RN and I could never ignore a bleeding patient. Race or ethnicity can never be an issue in patient care or even lack of insurance. I left nursing some years ago when I realized the patient charge slips where more important the actual patient care.The nursing supervisors were always on my case about filling out charge slips and never about patient care or needs. After 35 years caring for and about patients the system burned me out. This is not the work I was trained to do. Insurance paper work is why this system of health care is so expensive. Few doctors starting private practice can afford the personnel required to fill out all the insurance papers so he or she must join a hospital group or HMO. Private doctors are almost a thing of the past. A cost consultant is always second guessing the needs of the patient. Now many hospitals say their costs are sky rocking but they always seem to find more money for competitive expansions . It is the health care race to mediocrity. But to ignore a dying ,bleeding patient just boggles the mind. by cluelessfl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 188 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 10:44:54 AM (0+)
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You can die
from the medical negligence and even malice with the Universal Health Insurance or not. We al know that Universal Health Insurance in Canada and other countries is not some separate thing- it is a part of the Social Package which those nations had adopted which in some cases include paid maternity vacations, etc. Here they are all in arms against not the Universal Health but against the Social Package which has to accompany it and that would mean.. guess what- a different system. As for death I can say that I have been here for 18 years, visited several hospitals as a patient and/or relative of one and I can tell you that I personally had prevented many people I loved or just knew from either death or severe injury by just watching what the personnel was doing and interrupting them. I could list what I saw but the cause was always the same- overwork and total indifference due to tiredness of those people. They were not malicious- just totally indifferent. Their livelyhood was not tied even a bit to the welfare of the patients and as such they did what was necessary, nothing more. But doing what is necessayr only has an old name - 'italian strike'. That is we all know that we have to do more than necessary otherwise all stops. And then.. I am afraid to predict but those hospital people who killed a woman should expect another visit. This time it will be a young man with a gun. Good luck. by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 11:47:10 AM (0+)
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The U.S. Health Care Fraud
I apprehend a complete failure to acknowledge the root of the problem. I watched in the fifties and sixties as the insurance companies bought all of the hospitals in the United States. As soon as the insurance companies gained ownership of U.S. hospitals, the cost of a stay at a U.S. hospital started increasing exponentially. In the 1950's a day in a U.S. hospital would cost about $40.00 - $60.00. In 1987, the average charge for the same semi-private room was in excess of $8,500.00. In only a few years, the charge for just the hospital room increased about twenty fold. All other hospital charges followed the same patern. U.S. hospitals instituted the practice of charging insane amounts for everything, and padding their bills with all sorts of charges for items which had not even been provided. For example, I got a $23,000 hospital bill (not counting the doctors' bills) for my step son having his appendix removed, and was charged for bed pans and all sorts of medications that he did not recieve. Several years prior to that, my great uncle had paid over $250,000.00 for a few months in the hospital, when he was dying of cancer. The hospital also sent his son a $200,000.00 bill after he was dead. The insurance companies have acquired controling interest in U.S. hospitals, and have used that control to make certain that every person in the U.S. either pays them every month, or they will be unable to obtain medical treatment. The whole thing is entirely an extortion scam, where the costs of health care have been manipulated for the purpose of setting the insurance companies up to charge huge premiums from the majority of Americans every month, and bilk the U.S. taxpayers out of as much as posible; cashing in on pork barrel politics, using an extremely well funded lobby to purchase politician's votes for funding for medicare, medicade, etc. The solution is to audit what has occured with the ownership of the medical industry, and take appropriate anti-trust actions. Also the extortions and frauds which have been perpetrated need to be punished. I'll bet that if we recover the monies the insurance companies have defrauded us of over the years, an annuity could be established that will pay for universal halth care for perpetuity, without ever toutching the principle. by Brent Douglas Cole (2 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 10 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 12:02:32 PM (0+)
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An unnecerssary death
The staff of that emergency room and the 911 operators that took no action should all be arrested and charged with Depraved Indifference Homicide. They collective killed that woman as surely as if they had shot her in the head. This country will never have a single payer health care simply because the insurance industry has already bought and paid for most of our representatives on Capitol Hill. by walley (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 108 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 12:10:38 PM (0+)
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Death by vomiting
by Pikan (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 12:30:52 PM (0+)
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Reply: well...
"And those who say their behaviors are histrionic. That word is used incorrectly all too often. " Reality is NOT PC and neither is good medicine. That said it is a well known scientific fact that on average hispanics are the most histrionic race. I treat hispanic patients all the time and many will act out like they are dying over an extremely minor problem. It is part of their cultural norm. Regardless this in no way excuses what happened to that woman but MAY explain why the complaints were overlooked i.e. 'boy that cried wolf' syndrome....once again don't 'shoot the messenger' as I merely offering posibilities without knowing all the facts of the case. cya Ben by Ben Marble, M.D. (23 articles, 0 quicklinks, 230 diaries, 349 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 2:18:09 PM (0+)
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Reply: Ben's right
For decades, researchers have reported how different ethnic groups respond to pain. His comment is based on data, and it is important for physicians to know these things. That said, like Dr. Marble said, vomiting blood is not histrionic and should have immediately clued the staff at the hospital to the urgent need for treatment. by Rob Kall (953 articles, 4178 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 5:27:55 AM (0+)
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The Right Wing Cry of Socialized Med.
The Right Wing Cry of against Universal Health Care labeling it "Socialized Medicine" is so ludicrous. We have tax supported or "socialized" school systems, "socialized" security-Police, Fire, inspections, "socialized" high schools, colleges, community colleges and Military. I just do not understand the stupid argument against health care for all. Please read my plan which Senator OBAMA's medical specialist, a physician read and rudely rejected, we think, because it took most of the corporate profit out of the equation My plan is financed by taxing the crap out of Corporations which outsource, which caps CEO comp-packs at $.2.5 mill, and no more than 25 times the average comp-pack of ALL employees including outsourced salaries. you can find it at: Why We Need to Have a Referendum For A Corporate Fair Practices Act! by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1317 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 2:09:09 PM (0+)
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Why are people complaining ?
I don't understand !! Why are people complaining about this woman's death ? She didn't have health insurance .. Then why is anyone expecting that she will get the best care in the world ? If you are a rational human being, then you would have done everything possible to stay alive; and that includes paying for health insurance. Why do you think anyone is ENTITLED to free healthcare ? It is not the right of any person to receive free healthcare. Then why would any doctor sacrifice 20 yrs of their lives to become a doctor if all the insurance-less people in the country start DEMANDING that they be treated for free ? You cannot go into bestbuy and DEMAND a free plasma TV ... same way you cannot go into a hospital and demand free treatment. I myself am a highly educated person working in the technology industry and so is my wife who is a doctor. We have a comfortable income; but even then we are careful about money. We are in our thirties and still haven't had kids because we are not financially ready for that; while this Edit Rodrigues is 43 and already a GRANDMOTHER !!! What kind of person becomes a grandmother at 43 ??? Having children is not a right. Breed them only if you can feed them. Life is all about choices.. Choose to pay for health insurance and you can expect to receive reasonable care at a good hospital... Choose to plan your family and your finances and you can expect to have a comfortable life. Now don't argue that she didn't have the money to pay for health insurance.. First of all, if you don't have money, then you anyway shouldnt expect insurance... Even otherwise, she has the money to raise a family and become a grandmother at 43... Stop whining and work !! by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 2:39:02 PM (0+)
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Reply: Pay for Heath insurance -- or pay rent and eat
Hey, my boss just sent in a $500 Cobra payment for ONE month for his newly-graduated-from-college son -- and that is COBRA and for ONE person, not the higher-cost private health insurance. Since more and more jobs aren't offering health care or only offering very highly priced health care -- you expect the person to be able to afford to pay for private health insurance for himself and his wife? Puh-lease! As for breeding children -- talk to the pope. Meanwhile, the president of United Healthcare makes out like a bandit. When 25-30 cents of every healthcare dollar goes for administration, something is sicko. Nope, increase taxes and give us universal healthcare, preferably single payer -- get the profit-motive out of healing! NOTE to Those of us with a HEART and some compassion: Go to http://johnconyers.com/ and sign a petition to support H.R. 676 to provide a strong single-payer system. by Kate Anne (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 6:10:53 PM (0+)
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Reply: she is to blame
"Take the profit motive out of healing" ?? wtf... why would competitive people ever become doctors then If text deleted by editor for ad hominem name calling. Commenter be warned. like you DEMAND that doctors treat FOR FREE all the people with illnesses ? How can you demand that other people pay for your treatment ? Why should I pay for your treatments ? If you choose to become parent when you are a teenager ; and you choose to become a grandparent in your forties; you might end up being unable to pay for other things .. like health insurance; And an untimely death in the ER is a possible outcome. Life is all about choices.. choose wisely and don't expect other people to pay for your mistakes. There is no such thing as a free lunch ! You have to pay for everything ; and that includes healthcare. If you are so pissed off with the current system, then opt out of health insurance - and pay for each hospital visit with your own money. Stop whining and start working... And make wise choices in your life. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 7:00:08 PM (0+)
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Reply: You are to blame
They are not doctors. They are blood suckers who leech money for for profit so each of their vermin can drive BMWs. by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 972 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 9:22:51 PM (0+)
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Reply: if you feel they are vermins don't go to them
If you feel that doctors are blood sucking profit oriented vermins, then don't go to them. Why are you even complaining they they deny you help if you hate them ? We doctors are not willing to sacrifice 20 years of our lives putting ourselves through medical school if we were not in it for the profit. Why can't you losers not figure that out. If you don't want to pay for our services - fine, just ask for our help... Buy a knife and scalpel and do it yourselves. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 10:59:05 PM (0+)
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Reply: well
I think it should be pretty obvious to everyone that you are a complete word removed by editor, though the editor is in agreement, for name calling...there is this lil idea called 'first do no harm' that you should check into by Ben Marble, M.D. (23 articles, 0 quicklinks, 230 diaries, 349 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 2:04:24 AM (0+)
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Reply: In it for the money
How much money is enough? You make me puke. by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 8:19:01 AM (0+)
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Reply: as much as I decide
How much money is enough ? Well as much as I demand. And if you think I am overpaid, then don't use my services. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 7:25:40 PM (0+)
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Reply: rkrk
Did it ever occur to you that some people can't hold a full time job because of health reasons? You've got to be the most obnoxious person I've ever seen on this forum. by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 8:16:40 AM (0+)
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Reply: i might be obnoxious to you; but i am not a thief
I might be obnoxious to you; but I am not a thief. If you think I am overpaid, then don't use my services. As simple as that. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 7:28:20 PM (0+)
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Reply: Why We have every right to complain.
My wife's insurance company went belly up. When that happens there is not piggy backing. We were turned down by twelve health providers because she is diabetic. We turned it over to COBRA which forces an insurance company to provide coverage; however, the company decides the cost of the insurance, the amount of the deductible, and the amount of co-pay. Here is the offer we received just for my wife: $1000 premium per month or twelve thousand dolllars a year, $5,000 deductible, and 70/30 co-pay which means we are guaranteed to pay twelve thousand a year if we do not use it, seventeen thousand dollars if we do use it, and then they we get to pay thirty percent of each bill after the seventeen thousand dollars. Someone should go to jail for manslaughter in this case. by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 972 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 9:20:22 PM (0+)
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Reply: pay it yourself then
if you hate insurance companies so much, then there is a simple solution.. don't buy health insurance... Just pay the $100000 hospital bills yourself. Why do you think that your insurance company is dutifully bound to pay for your diabetic wife ? If I get into a bunch of car accidents, my car insurance wll go up because otherwise, they will lose money. Same way if you have lot of diseases, then your health insurance will go up or otherwise the insurance companies will lose money. WHY CAN"T YOU LOSERS FIGURE THAT OUT ? You cannot walk into a best buy and demand a free plasma TV You cannot go into a beauty spa and demand a free facial You cannot walk into a hospital and demand a free heart surgery Why are you so special that we doctors have to care for you for free ? Who gave you that right to demand free from me that which I have taken 20 years to accomplish ? by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 11:05:11 PM (0+)
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Reply: There was a time when Doctors Became Doctors to Help People
There are still plenty of doctors around the world who feel that way. Then there are others who get into it for the money. In the dozens of countries where all members of society DO receive healthcare, your heartless, greedy, mean-spirited way of thinking (note, I am describing thinking, not you) is not necessary. YOU are actually a victim of this meanspirited, selfish illness treatment system, because you, as one who profits from it, feel the need to defend it. I feel sad for you, that your attitude is so cold-hearted. It has to influence other aspects of your life too. It is this same kind of attitude that will allow one to be okay with soldiers dying for a fraudulent war, which I'm sure you support still. And while we're at it, your way of thinking would suggest that only people who can afford education should get it. Take your thinking far enough and the country starts looking like a third world nation run by oil gazillionaires. Along with changing to universal health care, medical schools should be required to evaluate applicants for heart. Some people, who only care about money, would be better off in business- loan sharking, pimping, selling Enron stock. by Rob Kall (953 articles, 4178 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 5:41:24 AM (0+)
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Reply: no i dont support the war
no, I dont support the war. I think the taxpayer money would have been better spent elsewhere. Education is not a right. It is a previlege. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 6:26:47 PM (0+)
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Reply: rkrkshk
Did it occur to you that there is a difference between people and best buy. You're so over the top I almost can't believe this is satire you're posting. by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 8:21:39 AM (0+)
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Reply: Are You for Real?
I hope I never get you as a doctor. Highly educated, maybe.... but a heart of stone. by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 8:13:36 AM (0+)
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WHAT WE REALLY NEED
A single-payer universal health-care system is not the answer. We need a dual-payer system. Every state must enroll every resident in an HMO, which would specialize in preventive care, diagnosis, outpatient care and to provide needed medication. The federal government's system would include hospitalization, recovery and recuperative treatment. Plus medication. The argument that "we can't afford" such a system is nonsense. We now pay 50 percent more for 15 percent less coverage that other modern nations. And it is the employee who pays, not the employer. So thinking you are getting free health- insurance from your employer is nonsense. Health insurance is paid for through "deferred compensation," that is money earned by workers but not paid to those workers. It is sent to a third party (insurance company) that use a third of it for seven-figure salaries to CEOs and to pay thousands of clerks to figure out how to avoid paying for medical bills. So paying for the system is no problem State HMOs would cover the almost 50 million Americans now excluded. PS: I understand that any waiting Canadians do, is for elective procedures. by tabonsell (33 articles, 0 quicklinks, 39 diaries, 318 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 3:04:16 PM (0+)
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It's not just tragedy - it's travesty
There's a reason this woman was treated this way. Because those who did, could. There's a cure for this type of treatment: A Grand Jury investigation and real prison time for everybody who dropped the ball from Jump Street to the bottom line. We make example of drug dealers and such, who for the most part affect only other druggies. The people involved here are working with the general public and something like can, and will, happen again unless a clear message is sent out. Also, if this woman's lawyer wins $1 million posthumously, they should be awarded another $100 million for punitives. This is the only thing that resonates up to the Chairman's office. by Dusty Nathan (18 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 69 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 3:25:09 PM (0+)
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China would never let that happen.
After leaving the USA nearly 6 years now because of 911, here in China I find their Health Care very convenient. very affordable, and up to date. In China they also use Chinese medicine that they have used for years in treating illness, something the West is totally ignorant about. I have never had to use my Health Insurance here. In fact x-rays, blood test, and other procedural tests are not that expensive. Sometimes the medicine might seem pricey, but many times I have seen medicine so inexpensive, I could only smile in amazement! With a billion more people than the USA even when you include the milllion or so of illegal Mexicans, China is still able to take care of its people. I find that remarkable, and genuine. To think a developing country has more on the ball than America a developed country really tells me the terminolgy is really baseless. by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 6:50:32 PM (0+)
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Failure to Provide Care = Murder ??
Despite the fact that someone might not have died had s/he received certain type(s) of care, s/he has not been murdered because that care was not provided - unless there was an actual contract to provide that service and the contractor failed to deliver it. To follow the originally stated logic to its extreme (and this must be done to assess its validity), every time a person died of anything for which a possible prevention/cure existed, those who did not provide that treatment would be guilty of murder. The failure to act - even to not render aid to someone in a life-threatening situation - is not equivalent to killing/murdering a person. You and anyone else who finds the inaction by another to be reprehensible properly should negatively preference against that person, just as you should in regard to anyone who acts in a manner with which you do not agree. However to call for government action to provide a service is to call for government to take money (by force or threat of it) from some and give it to others. by Kitty Antonik Wakfer (26 articles, 27 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 163 comments [15 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 9:42:28 PM (0+)
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Reply: There already is a law.
Hospitals ARE required to see patients in dire need of help. Sounds like we're dealing with an overdose of Ayn Rand here. Primitive, indigenous, preliterate members of tribes care for their own. It is uncivilized not to. No excuses about income, or whatever can justify allowing a person to die in a hospital ER. ANy such attitude is bestial and inhuman. by Rob Kall (953 articles, 4178 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 5:46:23 AM (0+)
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Here's an email I just got
This from a cyber friend who passed it on from someone he knows: (I've edited out some of the personal info, even though permission was given but the rest is intact. So much for preapring and paying your way, and that crap..) Just thought I would share about our family situation here this past six months. by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 11:27:52 PM (0+)
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free healthcare and free housing for all
For the people in this forum asking for universal healthcare - whats next ? Free housing ? Yes, that would be great wouldn't it ? And while you are at it, demand that you need donald trump's $125 million mansion - Hey you deserve it. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 at 11:46:31 PM (0+)
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Reply: Alright -- forget this garbage you're putting out
Universal health care is not free, and no one says it is. It would be paid for through taxes, paid by everyone. Private insurance isn't free either, but the rich owners of the companies skim the cream off the top. The people on this board are not idiots, so don't post oversimplistic messages to us as if we were. If you really don't understand how universal health care works, then go find out and stop the nonsense. by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 12:08:04 AM (0+)
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Reply: Universal Healthcare
I'm all for universal health care. That way we don't have to be wage slaves to the corporate beauracy and we could start our own businesses. And maybe it could keep shmucks like you from ever being doctors. It's obvious you're in it just for the money. by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 8:26:01 AM (0+)
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Reply: u don't need universal healthcare to start a business
come on now.. stop whining. You don't need universal healthcare to start a business. But you do need entrepreneurial instincts, guts, ability to take risks, ability to strategize and organize, ability to inspire and lead. If you don't have that, no amount of outside help will help you start a business. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 7:31:59 PM (0+)
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taxes are a scam
taxes are a way of transferring wealth from the rich to the poor. How else can you explain progressive taxation - high taxes for the high earners ! hey, i am not being oversimplistic. I completely understand how universal coverage would work. I am only concerned as to the oversimplification on your part as to how all of us will come together and do this common good thing. The thing that you forget to mention is that most of the money is going to come from the rich while they will get the same level of coverage that a person who contributed 10 times less will get. Where is the justice in that. And the analogy with universal housing is perfect as well. As you mentioned why don't we all "contribute to a national pool and get universal housing" ? After all, housing is as basic a need as healthcare . If a homeless person dies in the street, will you prosecute the banker who refused to provide him a homeloan ? by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 12:34:42 AM (0+)
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Reply: and on it goes...
taxes are a scam by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 4:20:47 AM (0+)
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Reply: white collar people work hard too
No, taxes are not a scam: they are the way society pulls together to get things done which needs doing and is best done through government. In an ideal society, yes there would be NO GOVERNMENT. Each individual would be responsible for his or her own life. But that does not mean that he/she can go and steal from another person. People who are comfortable with doing the low level work will be the employees and the people who are good at managing and organizing and take risks will become entrepreneurs. In an ideal society, we wouldn’t need militia because people respect the personal property of others. I can argue that NASA is a waste of money because of the very little benefit we get out of it. Would you have everyone build their own road? No, whoever wants a road can try to gather like minded people and build a road. On their own property. They can then charge other people who use this road. Their own militia? In an ideal society, there would be no need for militia because people will respect the private property of others. Their own chemical testing lab to ensure food is safe? There wouldn’t be any need for food testing centers because all the incompetent food producers would be out of business. and you couldn't run a business without workers educated in a public schools system. I will recruit people educated privately. I do not want my money to be used to educate other people. Obviously you have never tried entreneurship or any other road to wealth. If you had, you would have found that it is incredibly difficult. A rich person does not get rich by stealing. He gets rich by taking a bank loan, opening a business and recruiting people to work for him AT WILL, taking risks, strategizing about the marketplace and design a better product. The employees are not forced to work for the employer. They can leave anytime. It is the employer who takes all the risk in a business. No wonder they get compensated more. You talk about people contributing -- the guy who breaks his back doing hard work for 40 or 50 years have contributed significantly more than most of the wealthy, and got less for the effort. I've done intellectual work, technical work, and manufacturing and labor -- and the last two were a hell of lot harder than sitting on my butt, and generally contributed more to society. The things I'm proudest of are the buildings I helped to put up and are still there 40 years later -- that was a much better accomplishment than writing programs for a database letting investors log on to a banking system -- for a bank that doesn't even exist anymore. The rich use more government services so they should pay more, and very few are or become rich through their own labor. What do you mean ‘their own labor’ ? A factory does not function, just if all the assembly line workers work from 9 to 5. It needs finance people to arrange the finances. It needs marketing department to advertise. It needs research people to design better assembly lines. It needs a CEO to give high level strategy and direction to the company and to give overall organization guidance. So just because white collar people don’t do physical labor doesn’t mean that they don’t do useful work. Yes, I agree there are incompetent CEO’s out there and they should be fired. But many CEO do indeed do a good job especially in today’s extremely complex globalized world. Yes indeed. Then why not universal food security, universal job security etc. That is called communism. The primary reason communism failed was not because of corruption or nepotism. It failed because it does not take into account peoples aspirations and ambitions. It assumes that everyone is equally talented. I wouldn’t need survive by myself because there would be other rational people out there who would be interested in trading things and services with me. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 5:00:39 PM (0+)
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Hey, rkrkshk...
...why don't you go expletive deleted by editor and see if you can come up with something resembling compassion? Oh, that's right, you think since you are a doctor, we must all get down on our knees before you and your ilk and weep in gratitude that you took soooo much time out of your wasn't-doing-anything-else-with-it life to study medicine. Obviously, you think all of humanity owes you more money than is your due! Hah! Expletive and ad hominem deleted by editor You decided to be a doctor...most likely because you are a Expletive and ad hominem deleted by editor, and now you think you have the right to sign other peoples' death warrants. Hah! Doctors die too, Expletive and ad hominem deleted by editor! Until you can s--t roses, you are just another critter in the forest, and a pretty Expletive and ad hominem deleted by editor at that. So get the f- over yourself, ad hominem deleted by editor! I hope you suffer under an endless stream of malpractice suits. You think you have it hard now, wait until your humanity makes you f- up, and you get to watch your world crumble like the worlds of people who you dare to judge. To the Devil's Advocate, I think laying in the middle of a floor, puking up blood and screaming in agony (followed quickly by death) is about a bit more than histrionics. You and rkrkshk should get together and have a "we hate the rest of the world" party. What a bunch Expletive and ad hominem deleted by editor you are! Pappy ______________________________________ Editor's note: comments should be respectful, even if the person you are commenting on is a heartless, mindless misanthrope. Comment edited for language unfitting a family web site, but not for sentiment. Senior editor's note: bold edits made in spite of agreement with much of what was said about rkrkshk. This site doesn't tolerate ad hominem comments. Talk about ideas, opinions, behaviors, not the person. by Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 860 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 12:41:56 AM (0+)
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Reply: Get your lies straight, rkrkshk!
Yes, rkrkshk, you are proving yourself to be a liar. In your first post you said you work in technology and your wife is a doctor, but then you said YOU are a doctor. Which is it?? Get your lies straight. Or do you just believe you're a doctor? May you one day be stricken with a debilitating, agonizing disease that will take all your money, leave you with massive debt, and make you wish you were dead. Then maybe, just maybe, you will learn some compassion. In the meantime, go over to Freerepublic or Townhall where there are people who will believe your mindless regurgitation of Bushbot/Fox News talking points. by teeem (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 41 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 1:59:48 AM (0+)
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Reply: Not necessarily lies
It's hard to imagine a person with mean, hateful, toxic views like rkrkshk actually working with patients and actually helping them to heal them. But he could work for a medical instrument or pharmaceutical company, or specialize in medical imaging, working with technology, far away from patients. I sure hope that's the case. by Rob Kall (953 articles, 4178 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 6:33:26 AM (0+)
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Reply: ...
"To the Devil's Advocate, I think laying in the middle of a floor, puking up blood and screaming in agony (followed quickly by death) is about a bit more than histrionics. " as usual you would rather 'shoot the messenger' then actually try to comprehend my point...so let me restate it.....the patient presents to the er where they check in at which point the triage nurse listens to their complaints and decides if they are a true emergency or not. During that initial encounter either the triage nurse was grossly incompetent (any triage nurse SHOULD know that vomiting blood is ALWAYS a true emergency) OR more likely the patient was not actively vomiting blood while being triaged and later began to vomit blood AFTER being triaged (incorrectly) as a non-emergent patient where she would have been sent into the waiting area. It would seem likely that the vomiting blood probably then began while in the waiting area at which point in time someone should have returned and notified the triage nurse about the vomiting up blood. At that point the triage nurse should have known to convert the patient from a non-emergent case to an emergent case and expedited her care. The bottom line is we all know this is a blatant f*ck up of a case. I am merely trying to offer possible explanations as to how something so seemingly insane could have happened. cya Ben by Ben Marble, M.D. (23 articles, 0 quicklinks, 230 diaries, 349 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 2:25:34 AM (0+)
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u get what u pay for
I have a simple solution to all the so called healthcare problems in this country If you think doctors are overpaid, avoid them by all means. Buy the knife and scalpel and remove the appendix yourself or perform open heart surgery with a group of your buddies. But if you want a doctor to do that, don't complain about the cost. If you think insurance companies scam you, avoid them by all means. Don't buy health insurance and instead pay all the $100000 hospital bills yourselves every year for your diabetes and what not. I am sure the hospitals will be grateful to you for not having to deal with the insurance companies. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 1:47:22 AM (0+)
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Reply: your so over the top
you can't possibly actually believe this crap you are spewing by Ben Marble, M.D. (23 articles, 0 quicklinks, 230 diaries, 349 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 2:07:25 AM (0+)
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for all you dimwitted folks out here - The bill of rights
"We, the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV or any ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If ARTICLE VIII: You don't have the right to a job. All of us sure want you ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 2:52:11 AM (0+)
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But I do...
ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If I have the right to steal everything you have because I have a better gun -- and there's nothing you can do about it, because by withdrawing from society and the social contract and the rule of law you give any rights you think you have. The "rest of us"? You're not part of the "rest of us" -- you want to go it alone and not be be part of the community. And there are a lot more of us normal people than bloodsuckers who want to leech off everyone else, using them and the commons and the national systems which have been established. You want law? There IS no law with society, and there is no society without social justice. You think you have rights? You have nothing without the society -- the people -- to keep it all going. A scalpel? Can you make a scalpel? Can you make the light in an operating room? Or the sponges, or the tiled floor you stand on? You can't do squat without the working class people who you want to let die on the floor. You're just a grafter -- a parasite. by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 4:32:29 AM (0+)
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Reply: different skillsets - different prices
I have the right to steal everything you have because I have a better gun -- and there's nothing you can do about it, because by withdrawing from society and the social contract and the rule of law you give any rights you think you have. Why do you have to resort to violence ? It must mean that you are a violent person. I do not need any gun to live in a rational society because I am sure that my skillsets are valued and unique. You are afraid that your skillsets are not unique and difficult; and that they are easily replaceable. That’s why you will need to resort to violence. Anyway, You seem to be confused by the “social contract” that you mention. Yes, I agree that there should be a social contract that says no one will harm anyone else. But social contract does not mean that everyone has a right to everyone else’s hard work. Different people have different skillsets which are different in uniqueness and level of difficulty. The society will pay you a price for your skills depending on its uniqueness and difficulty. You think tiger woods is no different from you ? Hell he is not even ‘working’ according to your definition. Just try swinging a golf club and you will understand why he gets paid a 100 million.I never said that I want to go it alone. I just said that I have skillsets which I want the marketplace to value. I do not want everyone to lay a claim to my hardwork just because they are a part of society. If you are a factory worker, I can be trained in your profession in a matter of months because I am very physically fit and can learn your trade fast. But if you are a neurosurgeon, it will take me 20 years to learn your skillsets and hence your skillsets are not easily replaceable. I just argue that different people have different and unique skillsets which must be valued by the marketplace.No, I cannot make a scalpel or a sponge. I don’t need to because I can buy it from the market for its fair market value. If the scalpel maker demands a million dollars for each scalpel, he will just go out of business because there are 10 other scalpel makers out there who will sell me a scalpel for a 100 bucks instead of a million. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 12:49:43 PM (0+)
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A little bit for rkrkshk ( difficult to spell)
It does seem that individual is one of those doctors we should avoid at all costs.. Now, my dear man, everyone can behave like you. I am an engineer, 'sacrficed' many years of my life for gaining the profession and also overcame other 'societal obstacles'. Now it would be good for me to behave like most of the doctors do- to make the machines which kidn off work, but.. will soon stop working, lousy machines, so that the owners rush to me forever fro repairs and I get my money through aftermarket. Many production companies do just that. So..next time you board an airplane- it would be your fault that it fell from the sky because ...life is about choices and you could charter a Lear on your salary, sorry. It will be your fault if your children get obese and develop diabetes from eating too much MacDonalds because life is about choices and they should be fed in French restaurants. It will be your fault if your lawnmover runs over you instead of mowing the lawn because life is about choices and you should have hired a Mexican. It will all be your fault down to the point when a disgrunted client of yours whom you pilled to half- death would pull out a gun... and off you go. The experiment of the privatization of health had failed. You cannot claim that you can be an honest physician if the only source of your income is an UNHEALTHY INDIVIDUAL. The doctors here are interested in people being sick- their sustenance dictates it. Let's not lie to ourselves- doctors here are the servants of themselves; they have to be. I would not mind if a person openly declares just that and states that he is there for money. But the rant about ' life being about choices' and all other crap that guy delivers shows a coprophag, as self-poop eater right there:not only he is there for money but he also wants to feel comfortable about it. Not a chance in Hell, my darling. Watch your step when you board the plane or buy a new car. What goes around comes around. by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 6:26:58 AM (0+)
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Reply: the market decides the price
Now it would be good for me to behave like most of the doctors do- to make the machines which kidn off work, but.. will soon stop working, lousy machines, so that the owners rush to me forever fro repairs and I get my money through aftermarket. No, it would not be good for you to do that because then people will stop buying from you and buy from someone else with better quality products and you will go out of business. So..next time you board an airplane- it would be your fault that it fell from the sky because ...life is about choices and you could charter a Lear on your salary, sorry. It will be your fault if your children get obese and develop diabetes from eating too much MacDonalds because life is about choices and they should be fed in French restaurants. It will be your fault if your lawnmover runs over you instead of mowing the lawn because life is about choices and you should have hired a Mexican. It will all be your fault down to the point when a disgrunted client of yours whom you pilled to half- death would pull out a gun... and off you go. Yes, it would be my fault for any of the above choices, I agree. I am ready to take responsibility for that. I do not want myself or my kids to eat at McDonalds because it is unhealthy food. I want my kids to eat broccoli instead. But if they indeed ate at McDonalds and became obese, I would not blame McDonalds; because I knew from the outset what my kids were getting into. You cannot claim that you can be an honest physician if the only source of your income is an UNHEALTHY INDIVIDUAL. The doctors here are interested in people being sick- their sustenance dictates it. Let's not lie to ourselves- doctors here are the servants of themselves; they have to be. Yes, my only source of income is an UNHEALTHY INDIVIDUAL… But according to your logic – The only source of income for a farmer is a HUNGRY PERSON… And since we are all hungry every few hours, according to you - the farmer is dishonest too because he tries to command the highest prices for his foodgrains. Then people who build houses are dishonest too because their sustenance depends on other people needing shelter. AND THIS LOGIC IS WRONG. There is nothing wrong in asking for compensation for your hardwork. You can demand any price, but you will get only that price which the market has set as a fair value for your uniqueness, level of difficulty and level of replaceable-ness for your skillsets. Watch your step when you board the plane or buy a new car. I do not need to do that because I have trust that the market has weeded out all the incompetent airplane and car makers. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 1:05:20 PM (0+)
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Reply: OK, it is nice to meet a person
from the Twilight Zone. The market will correct everything... Go, marry him. Or it. BTW, the farmer grows crops not for the hungry individual but for the public food supply and that farmer does not have a direct interest in the individuals in the public to starve or they they will take the food without his permission. The medical professionals in this country are prowling on individuals, they do it all along and that is not true that they follow the market. There is basically no competition because they are all in it. But I digress. I do not want to sound bad but when you get really sick you might meet your market face to face and then-- you will hear the same arguments from other people and it will be not a pretty thing. Otherwise- you can live in your Twilight Zone- America allows that. by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 1:16:49 PM (0+)
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Reply: farmer is no different from doctor - both want the best pric
BTW, the farmer grows crops not for the hungry individual but for the public food supply and that farmer does not have a direct interest in the individuals in the public to starve WHY DO YOU HAVE TO THREATEN VIOLENCE ALL THE TIME ? If a farmer is selling his grains for a price you can’t afford, then don’t buy from him- buy from some other farmer who charges less. Don’t point a gun at him and threaten to steal his stuff. If you do point a gun at him, then you become a thief. In a rational society, the farmer does not have to worry about the hungry people taking his grains without his permission. The farmer only has to worry about setting the price of his grains correctly so that the hungry people will not go to some other farmer to buy grains. The medical professionals in this country are prowling on individuals, they do it all along and that is not true that they follow the market. There is basically no competition because they are all in it. but when you get really sick you might meet your market face to face and then-- you will hear the same arguments from other people and it will be not a pretty thing. Otherwise- you can live in your Twilight Zone- America allows that. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 2:08:36 PM (0+)
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But then...
"It will all be your fault down to the point when a disgrunted client of yours whom you pilled to half- death would pull out a gun... and off you go." When that happens, since the cops are paid with taxpayers' money, and he didn't hire a private security squad, then it's just fine if they leave him bleeding on the floor. same thing with the city ambulance -- and if he's snowed in and can't get to the emergency ward, well, what the hell -- why should society plow the road so he can ride on it for free? BUt then that hospital -- it probably was built with public money or charity, so he wouldn't be using that either. Noooo --- just bleed to death on the floor. There's actually a place where people who think like him have put those ideas into practice -- about you only get what you have the money for, everything is privatized, everything determined by who has the most money and power, and the people have no rights. He go live there. He should live in Iraq. In fact they are short of medical people there -- so many have been killed or escaped the country. Yeah -- that will suit him -- that's a nation where the society has been disassembled by greed and everyone-for-themselves, self-interested individualism. by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 7:24:38 AM (0+)
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Reply: the market decides the price
"It will all be your fault down to the point when a disgrunted client of yours whom you pilled to half- death would pull out a gun... and off you go." Yes, I agree. If I am an incompetent doctor, people might try to get back at me or I lose my practice because of lack of clients. But if I am a good doctor, people will wait in line outside my office to avail my services. That is why I try at every waking moment to become a competent doctor. When that happens, since the cops are paid with taxpayers' money, and he didn't hire a private security squad, then it's just fine if they leave him bleeding on the floor. same thing with the city ambulance -- and if he's snowed in and can't get to the emergency ward, well, what the hell -- why should society plow the road so he can ride on it for free? BUt then that hospital -- it probably was built with public money or charity, so he wouldn't be using that either. Noooo --- just bleed to death on the floor. There's actually a place where people who think like him have put those ideas into practice -- about you only get what you have the money for, everything is privatized, everything determined by who has the most money and power, and the people have no rights. He go live there. He should live in Iraq. In fact they are short of medical people there -- so many have been killed or escaped the country. Yeah -- that will suit him -- that's a nation where the society has been disassembled by greed and everyone-for-themselves, self-interested individualism. Iraq is not a correct example. That is a violent set of people who are not rational. If they were rational, they would stop the violence and try to live in a marketplace where everyone can trade their skillsets and wares for the best price they can get….. without resorting to violence. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 1:17:18 PM (0+)
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Reply: Iraq
Iraq is not a correct example. That is a violent set of people who are not rational. If they were rational, they would stop the violence and try to live in a marketplace where everyone can trade their skillsets and wares for the best price they can get….. without resorting to violence. Iraqis are as rational as anyone else. They TRIED to live in a sane market place, but the US bombed the hell out them, and then moved in and destroyed the labor unions. They brought in foreign workers instead of letting Iraqis do the work of repair. The US stopped people from having free elections and put in a puppet government, formed death squads (a Negroponte specialty), laid waste to cities, divided people and set them at each other's throats, destroyed the culture, and caused the death of millions. That's what the "free market" neocon thinking has done in Iraq, and that's what it does everywhere. Absence of socialism/communism does not have to mean complete anarchy. Why will you have to resort to violence if you are sure that you have skillsets which are as valuable as anyone else’s ? First, find out what anarchy really means -- you don't know. Anarchy and democracy are a political systems; communism and socialism are economic systems. My other post dealt with 'skillsets', but I'll mention here that real value of skills often has little to do with what people are paid. The 'skill' of being able to go into a company and rape it's resources, putting people out of work, and bankrupting it, can pay very well indeed -- but that 'skill' is of negative value. As for being paid well, all one has to do is wait with a rope until you fall into quicksand and sell you the rope for a million dollars -- which isn't much of a skill either. Resorting to violence, in the terms I'm speaking of, has nothing to do with one's skills, but with rebelling against the unjust use of power. There is a plentitude of doctors in Cuba, but in Cuba one can study medicine without it costing a fortune, and the student enrollment numbers in Cuban medical school (and thus the 'supply' of doctors) is not artificially restricted. by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 6:30:20 PM (0+)
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Reply: wow now you are talking
CUBA... YESS why dont you go over there... That must be an utopia for you. Free education, free healthcare.. Hmm. I wonder why all those happy people in cuba put their lives in jeopardy trying to swim in the florida straits and come to the evil USA. Communism is evil. It has been disproved both in theory and practice. The only people supporting it are whiners like you,. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 7:39:50 PM (0+)
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Reply: You do not have
The Floridans I know about who came/come from Cuba were the rich. They came to keep their ill gotten gains, to continue the impoverishment of weaker Cuban neighbors: ( chidren, sick, old). Every million dollars accrued is pocketed at the expense of others. The World has only so much in assets to give. for every pocket harboring vast wealth, thousands of others have been exploited. Uncontrolled Captalism is good for criminals, those without compassion, the selfish greedy—no one else. by emily horswill (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 79 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jul 8, 2007 at 1:16:05 PM (0+)
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It Takes A Village!
There needs to be some thorough housecleaning, including the hospital's administration AND that 911 Dispatcher (male), should be fired as well. It was a holistic tragedy there; not just the triage nurse. I think Michael Moore pinged it again with "Sicko". Although I have not seen it in its entirety, in relation to universal healthcare, private insurance companies and corporations need to be removed from the system. We have a systemic problem today. We have a Rethuglican Management Structure. "What they do is ok", even if it's legally and morally wrong; if you sound the whistle, you're the problem; if you see a problem, fix it but not on their time or without them taking the credit for it if it's a good idea! I could go on ad-nauseum. Remember the good ol' days when charity, amnesty, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, accountability, compassion, the respect for life (liberty and the pursuit of happiness!) were characteristics we respected in ourselves and others? Now they are impugned as cheap and unpatriotic. by Lisa W. (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 60 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 10:18:57 AM (0+)
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To the greedy rkrkshk
First of all, if you wanted to make big bucks, why on earth did you decide on medicine? With malpractice insurance rates as they are, and the fact that you have to find something inside yourself which obviously doesn't exist: compassion, you would have done much better for your greedy self by becoming yet another blood-sucking shyster! Obviously from your postings, you are a money grubber. What better profession for a money grubber than a lawyer? Just ask the a**hole who is suing for fifty million for the loss of his oh-so-important pants. Both my sisters went into medicine. One graduated to become either an oncologist or orthopedic surgeon. The other settled for her MOM degree instead. The sister that did go all the way through didn't take twenty years for her study. As I recall, it was twelve. While that is a long time, it's not the twenty years you keep claiming it took for you to get through the process. Too bad you are too dumb to get it done as quickly as my younger sister. Maybe that is why you are so bitter. Of course, be this all as it may, it ignores the fact that the janitors were cleaning up her bloody vomitus even as she lay dying on the floor. She was clearly in distress, in the middle of a hospital, yet she received nothing but a death sentence at the hands of insensitive jerk-offs, much like yourself. You can quote the constitution all you like. You cannot convince me or anyone else here that actually has a heart that the constitution gives people the right to allow another human being to die on the floor of an American Emergency Room. Even though I don't have medical training, I'd still do my best to help someone in distress. If you, as a doctor, can't come up with this same level of care, then what the f*ck are you doing in the profession? Perhaps you should reconsider your options and become a day trader, or something else where your obvious and callous insensitivity is more of a blessing than a curse...like a blood-sucking, money grabbing, time wasting, self-serving lawyer. Yes, I think that would have been a much better idea for the likes of you! Pappy by Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 860 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 2:45:11 PM (0+)
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Reply: That 'constitution'
is actually just some propagandist rant, filled with straw men and other fallicies, that's been running over the Internet for years. by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 6:34:47 PM (0+)
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Reply: help by all means; but dont force me
about that 20 years thingie, ask your sister what she thinks of a neurosurgeon. Or maybe you can research about what is the average age at which a neurosurgeon performs his/hers first surgery. Also, the constitution that I mentioned, does not force anyone NOT to volunteer for community health efforts. You can go and volunteer all your life to help another human being for free. But just don't start forcing everyone to work for free. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 7:18:32 PM (0+)
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Denial of Universal Healthcare
I live and work in Canada. Every year I pay my annual $1,289 for my health insurance for my family of four. That is paid once a year. I do not have Blue Cross or any other extra health insurance but both my sons do as they are university students and extra health insurance is compulsory and is included in their enrollment fees. I don't worry about health insurance as it is not part of our everyday budgetting. If I require doctor or hospital services they are paid for with no question. If I want a single hospital room rather than a ward (4 patients) then I must dip into my own pocket because I don't carry extra insurance. When universal health care is provided it is incumbent upon the patient to assist in keeping costs down even if it puts you in conflict with your doctor. For instance I went to the doctor and asked to have a small benign growth taken off the back of my leg as it kept catching when I would sit down and was uncomfortable. The doctor proceeded to set a date and to arrange an operating theatre and nurses at the local hospital for the removal until I told him flatly that if he woudn't take it off in his office then he could forget about it. Of course right there and then he pulled out his scalpel, disinfected and numbed the spot and cut it out all within five minutes. No date, no operating room, no nurses and no big cost to the system. There is no better way to prove the value of citizenship in any country than to provide healthcare to ALL citizens at a time when they are most vulnerable, when they are sick! by Archie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1757 comments [112 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 2:55:59 PM (0+)
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Hard to Believe this really happened...
Perhaps the workers at the hospital have become used to such a high volume of patients that speak languages other than English that they just sort of disconnect from patients who don't speak English as a first language. Or perhaps the workers themselves are newly arrived from other countries and feel they have no voice in procedural matters and are satisfied to just collect a paycheck while doing as they are told. Either way it's a downside to too much illegal and legal immigration happening too fast, and that is an issue that liberals tend to avoid. by Alessandro Machi (13 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 174 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 3:05:14 PM (0+)
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publicly funded healthcare
It has been my experience that publicly funded medicine leads to gross overcharging. I remember when medicare first came in back in 1967 or so. The cost of a hospital bed at our local hospital for one day went from $64 to over $250 instantly - a four-fold increase. Last month, a cousin of mine went to an ER for kidney stones. They did an xray but nothing more. He didn't have insurance so they set him up with some govt program, and then billed him $2000. Having govt money just makes it easier for hospital to collect on their truly exhorbitant bills. by wraft (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 54 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 3:10:49 PM (0+)
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wrongful death lawsuit?
I wonder if an attorney would find a wrongful death cause of action in this poor woman's death. The medicos shouldn't just skate away from this. by wraft (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 54 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 3:14:15 PM (0+)
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re: different skillsets
I said: by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 6:07:18 PM (0+)
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you reek of communism
What you are speaking for is communism which is not only evil; but has been disproved both in theory and practice over the last 100 years. You assume that everyone is equal. Well they are not. You could be taller than me. You could be physically stronger than me. You could be having a better voice and flair for singing than me. I could be better in managing finances. You could be better at organizing and strategizing. You could be better at maths. I could be better in physics. Even if we are both physicists, you could be a better physicist than me. Then why in the world would you and I be compensated equally. You assume that 'Work' is a finite quantity to be divided and done equally by all; and be compensated in the same measure. You assume that just by both working from 9-5, a janitor deserves the same pay as a neurosurgeon. You assume that entrepreneurs do not deserve to be paid higher than an employee because hey, both of them may work the same number of hours. You fail to understand the risk taking and strategizing by the entrepreneur which made the company in the first place. You fail to understand that some people are just smarter than others. If you give the same amount of work to 2 different people, they both will complete it in different amount of times. That is what is called productivity. If you and I are both given the same amount of the same work, I might finish it in 4 hours and you might finish it in 8. I might invent a creative new machine to do the same work in 10 minutes. Don't I deserve to be paid more than you ? by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 10:39:47 PM (0+)
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Reply: when all other argument fails...
call me a commuist. you reek of communism What you are speaking for is communism which is not only evil; but has been disproved both in theory and practice over the last 100 years. You have no idea what you are talking about -- about me or about communism. But I'm not about to take the time to educate you -- you have access to the internet and wikipedia. You assume that everyone is equal. No I don't -- you're just making that up. Then why in the world would you and I be compensated equally. I never said everyone had to be compensated equally -- you must have dreamed that. What I said, essentially, is that everyone has a right to the basic necessities of life -- and the the 'workman is worthy of his wages'. You assume that 'Work' is a finite quantity to be divided and done equally by all; and be compensated in the same measure. I never said that either. You are projecting some weird propaganda crap you've listened to on to me. You assume that entrepreneurs do not deserve to be paid higher than an employee because hey, both of them may work the same number of hours. You fail to understand the risk taking and strategizing by the entrepreneur which made the company in the first place. What risk? Spending other people's money? They rarely risk their own. And a company's success depends on the contributions of workers. They are the ones who produce the product. Management is work too, of course, but I've seen many people who won companies or small businesses who are idiots and keep going only because the wrokers keep it going. But the workers also take a risk -- some invest years of hard work in a company only to be thrown out on the street, have theri pensions stolen, or see the business fold because of lousy management. Don't you put any value on labor and laborers? You fail to understand that some people are just smarter than others. No, no ... trust me -- I am VERY well aware that some of us are smarter than others. I have learned a degree of patience. If you give the same amount of work to 2 different people, they both will complete it in different amount of times. That is what is called productivity. If you and I are both given the same amount of the same work, I might finish it in 4 hours and you might finish it in 8. I might invent a creative new machine to do the same work in 10 minutes. Don't I deserve to be paid more than you ? Nope -- because it's obvious that I will work faster and be better at inventing machines -- I can tell that just by reading how confused you are and how you have no grasp of systems thinking. That's a situation I've experienced many time before, but I still want everyone to get a decent wage so they can live well. I've often worked for free just because it was a good thing for society. OK -- I'm smarter than the average bear, but that's an accident of genetics, and it doesn't give me any more rights -- although perhaps I have more responsibility as a member of the human race who CAN do more with the same time. At other times some people help me where I am having trouble. It's called 'sharing' and 'working together' -- a thing people are supposed to learn in kindergarten. See -- this is a system and all the members and parts need to taken care of: that helps everyone develop and the overall productivity grows, so we all have better and more. What screws it up is the people who are fearful and selfish, or are so egotistical they think if they are 'better' than others they have more rights -- and that's a form of ignorance, and can destroy a society -- often has. You just don't understand this. That's not communism -- that's understanding the human mind and condition, and how a productive society has to work if it is going to survive. But actually, communism, as an economic system, has worked very well in different times and places -- but you seem to think that Stalinism or Maoism was ciommunistic -- they weren't. They just used the word while ignoring the priniciples. Lenin screwed up too. They didn't practice communism any more than Bush practices democracy; they were gangsters, like Bush is a gangster. Hey... get a clue ... educate yourself. by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 at 12:48:23 AM (0+)
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Reply: well u are a communist
call me a commuist. Yes you are one. Look in wikipedia on the basic principles of communism and you might be surprised. Universal health care, universal shelter, universal food security, they are indeed the foundation of communism. No I don't -- you're just making that up. I never said everyone had to be compensated equally -- you must have dreamed that. What I said, essentially, is that everyone has a right to the basic necessities of life -- and the the 'workman is worthy of his wages'. Who gave them that right to the basic necessities of life ? The society including you and me ? Just because you show up to work everyday does not mean that you should continue getting a paycheck. You have to earn it by doing your work and being competitive. So just because you were born into this world doesn’t mean that you are entitled to anything. You have to earn your way. When you are a child, it is your parents’ duty to feed you. But once you are an adult, then you are responsible yourself. The only thing that you should expect from others is that they will not harm you or your property. Other than that, no one is entitled to anything in this world. You have to earn it. Yes, the workman is worthy of his wages, but he is not worthy of his better colleague’s wages. You assume that 'Work' is a finite quantity to be divided and done equally by all; and be compensated in the same measure. I never said that either. You are projecting some weird propaganda crap you've listened to on to me. Well, your buddies in france are doing just that. Just google French 35 hour workweek. What risk? Spending other people's money? They rarely risk their own. And a company's success depends on the contributions of workers. They are the ones who produce the product. Yes, it is other people’s money; but they take the loan. If the business fails, the entrepreneur might end up in bankruptcy. But the worker doesn’t face bankruptcy – just because the business failed. I do understand that the worker will lose job security – but the entrepreneur will lose job security and face bankruptcy because of the loans he took to start the business. The worker doesn’t have to take a loan to work in a business. Management is work too, of course, but I've seen many people who won companies or small businesses who are idiots and keep going only because the wrokers keep it going. But the workers also take a risk -- some invest years of hard work in a company only to be thrown out on the street, have theri pensions stolen, or see the business fold because of lousy management. Don't you put any value on labor and laborers? You give all the negative examples which I also agreed are true. There indeed are out there many incompetent managers and CEO’s who are there just because of vested interests or inertia. But there are thousands of other visionary people out there who are indeed thousands of times smarter than me or you. Takes bill gates for example – All the coders of the world coming together in 1977 wouldn’t have been able to pull together and become the giant Microsoft. Yes Gates also needed the services of coders to create msft, but their skillsets are more replaceable than his. All the employees of Berkshire Hathaway putting their money into their best investments wouldn’t be able to match what warren buffet has achieved. According to your definitions, only physical labor counts as hard work.( I've done intellectual work, technical work, and manufacturing and labor -- and the last two were a hell of lot harder than sitting on my butt, and generally contributed more to society) I am not saying that the line workers in a business are useless. I am just saying that they have more replaceable skillsets than the CEO. You obviously have no idea how a business works. A business is not about a group of people coming together and doing pre defined work. It is also about the CEO who is able to strategize and track market trends, adapt to the changing requirements, get financing for his company etc. That's a situation I've experienced many time before, but I still want everyone to get a decent wage so they can live well. And how do you propose to do that ? By taxing the higher up people more ? If you want to donate your salary, that is fine with me. But don’t force the rest of us to also do that. So the line workers feel that they are underpaid huh ? Well then why don’t they simply start their own company and become line workers and pay themselves whatever they think is fair ? Why do they have to stay in their present companies and keep complaining that they aren’t being paid well. I've often worked for free just because it was a good thing for society. Good for you. But just don’t force it on the rest of us. At other times some people help me where I am having trouble. It's called 'sharing' and 'working together' -- a thing people are supposed to learn in kindergarten. See -- this is a system and all the members and parts need to taken care of: that helps everyone develop and the overall productivity grows, so we all have better and more. What screws it up is the people who are fearful and selfish, or are so egotistical they think if they are 'better' than others they have more rights -- and that's a form of ignorance, and can destroy a society -- often has. You just don't understand this. That's not communism -- that's understanding the human mind and condition, and how a productive society has to work if it is going to survive It is funny why MOST of the people asking for universal healthcare are the people in the bottom of the hierarchy. And the way they propose to do it is by (don’t hold your breath) – taxing the higher ups. If they think that the higher ups don’t deserve that part of their paychecks which the lower people are claiming, then go and start your own business. As simple as that. But actually, communism, as an economic system, has worked very well in different times and places Yes, it has worked very well in communist china in the last 25 years ! -- but you seem to think that Stalinism or Maoism was ciommunistic -- they weren't. They just used the word while ignoring the priniciples. Lenin screwed up too. They didn't practice communism any more than Bush practices democracy; they were gangsters, like Bush is a gangster. No dude, I know my history very well. There is a reason why all communist countries have to become autocratic. It is because they cannot accommodate the ambitions of entrepreneurs or for that matter, the competitive people in any hierarchy. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 at 1:40:42 PM (0+)
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life never is fair; nor it never will be
Life is not fair. It will never be. You might have to slog though college laden with student debt, while I don't have to worry about expenses because of my rich dad. But if you let these factors impair you; or if you blame them for not getting ahead; then you deserve to be a loser. The fact that life dealt you an unfair hand has no role in you becoming a loser. I can give you numerous examples of people dealt an unfair hand in life early on; but went on to make something big out of their lives. Abraham Lincoln was born into a poor farmer families, yet managed to become one of the best american presidents ever. I can go on and on and on about such people. If you understand that some people are smarter than others and that some people have some skills which happens to be valued in society, he or she will be compensated more for that. Yes your example is also correct. If there is a quicksand area and a person stands near that and sells ropes for a million dollars to whomever is unlucky to fall in, yes, that rope is worth a million dollars to the person who is about to die in the quicksand. He will be careful the next time not to fall into it. But he should not demand that the other person give the rope for free. Same way, I don't understand why anyone would pay Shania Twain in the millions since she sings horrible songs :) But I understand that there are people willing to hear her songs and are willing to pay good money for that. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 at 10:59:57 PM (0+)
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Reply: There it is...
by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 997 comments) on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 at 1:17:31 AM (0+)
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Reply: If Oprah can do it, so can anyone else.
You have yours and to hell with everyone else. First you talk about what people rightly deserve, and then you say fair doesn't mean anything. Can you say "cognitive dissonance"? Yes, people rightly deserve what they earn. You have no right to force other people to donate a part of their salary to support you. That’s what’s entrepreneurs are made of. Look at the history of any of the biggest entrepreneurs and you will understand why they made it big. Almost none of them inherited their huge businesses. I am not saying that the line workers in those business are useless. I am just saying that their skillsets are more replaceable and easier to find than the skillsets of the entrepreneurs. Take Larry Ellison (oracle). He was abandoned by his parents and grew up with his relatives. But he has built one of the biggest software companies in the US. I can even argue the same thing about Bill Gates. Granted he was born into an upper middle class family. But that had almost nothing to do with his success at Microsoft. You might argue that if Bill Gates was born into a poor family, he would not have had the same success. Well if Bill Gates was born into a poor family, it would have delayed his success, but not prevented it. I can give you a hundred examples just like that, without even referring anywhere else. Just to name a few – Oprah Winfrey, Larry Ellison, Andrew Carnegie, David Blunkett (The blind british minister), Bill Clinton, J K rowling (Harry potter creator who was a single mother on welfare) ….. If Oprah Winfrey (born as a poor african american woman in 1950s mississippi, abused as a child) can be this successful, there is no reason why anyone else dealt an unfair hand early in life cannot replicate her success. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 at 2:37:29 PM (0+)
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well...should I now...
...fall to my knees and kiss your ass, or should I continue to view you as one...an ass, that is. The point of this all is a woman was allowed to die, in a hospital, in full sight of doctors, nurses, and the janitors who had to clean up her bloody puke from the floor. If nothing else, one would have thought the knowledge that a story of this nature would get out to the media, and would be so damning, at least one doctor or one nurse would have thought enough of their public image to have at least gotten her out of the middle of the ER floor! I mean, Jesus H. Christ! That's just common sense. That's just common f*cking decency! Are you telling me that you doctors are so high and mighty, you can't even afford the five minutes it would have taken to get this woman out of public sight...to have at least made the effort to look like you were making an effort? Was that so much to ask? Now, not only did this poor woman die a horrible and needlessly painful death, she did so in front of complete strangers. What an indignity! Were they really going to lose that much money, sweat, or tread off the soles of their shoes if they had moved this woman to a place where she could at least TRY to DIE with DIGNITY? Was that so much to ask? This is their chosen profession, as it is yours. I don't think asking them to behave professionally, and with dignity was too much to request. Obviously, in the case of Edith Rodriguez, it was. So sad. Blessed be! by Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 860 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 at 1:49:15 AM (0+)
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Reply: she is to blame
I am just saying that this woman has the most responsibility in this whole incident. Hear me out before you start attacking me. Before you start glorifying this ‘poor woman’, let me reconstruct her life for you from what I read in the news. A. She was on parole violation. B. She was a grandmother already at 43. I am already in my thirties and reasonably comfortable financially and yet have chosen not to have kids until I am fully ready to financially and emotionally support them. Well, to be a grandmother at 43, you most likely had to have become pregnant in your teens or early twenties and the same thing with your children. That was a HORRIBLE choice to make on her part. Don’t tell me the pregnancy just happened to her. It was a choice she made. As I said, life is all about choices. If she had chosen not to have a family till she had some semblance of financial or emotional security, then she would have been able to better plan her finances. Also, having kids is not a right, it is a privilege. Breed them only if you can feed them. So if she had made the correct choices, she would have had the money to pay for health insurance. And if she did, she would not have needed to go to that public hospital she went to. She could have gotten better care and needn’t have died. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 at 2:05:28 PM (0+)
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Blaming the victim....how cliche!
Before I begin, I have to say you are not only heartless, you are so many other things I can't type because I'll be accused of perpetuating ad hominem attacks on you. That being said, you are welcome to read between the lines to figure out what I am saying to you. While you are doing that, perhaps you might want to come on down off that cross. While we don't really need the wood, your martyrdom on this issue is the thing of legend. It is tacky and shows criminal bad taste. You aren't going to get a sympathetic ear here. Besides that, blaming the victim shows incredibly bad taste. I would assume that someone that supposedly went to college for twenty years would know this. I only went for three, but I clearly have more taste and smarts than yourself. So sad... by Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 860 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 at 3:42:52 PM (0+)
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she could have avoided this if only she made the right choic
Whoa there, Scooter! I don't give a sh*t if she was a baby rapist and murderer. Would you feel that way if it was ur baby daughter that she had raped and ur baby son that she had murdered. I am sure you were one of the people campaigning for Timothy McVeigh to be spared the death sentence. Yes dude, people deserve less when they commit crimes. That is why my freedoms will be curtailed and I will be sent to jail if I murder someone. If she didn’t deserve to die there, she should have made the choices herself. She should have gotten herself heath insurance instead of going to jail, she should have planned her family properly instead of becoming pregnant as a teenager. Besides that, blaming the victim shows incredibly bad taste. I would assume that someone that supposedly went to college for twenty years would know this. I only went for three, but I clearly have more taste and smarts than yourself. So sad... YES My criminal record is clean. Parking tickets are not crimes. You and the fucks that let her die are doctors. That means you are humans. That means you are no better than this woman upon whom you are willing to pass your absolute judgment on her life, and her right to that life because of her life mistakes. Nothing you studied in Grey's Anatomy or while dissecting cadavers allows you the right to damn someone to such a horrifyingly dehumanizing death, or to support those who would. You should know better. Who would Hippocrates allow to die in disgrace and without dignity? I am a mechanic. I am a computer and electronic geek. There is nothing that runs on batteries, plugs into the wall, or drives down the road I can't fix. When it comes to abilities truly needed by society, I am far and away above you, Mr. Neurosurgeon! The number of things required by our society that can be fixed by myself is much more plentiful than yours. You are only required more or less as a last resort. Playing the percentages, there are far more people who need a mechanic or a computer geek than who will need a brain doctor. Frankly, the number of people who will need a cardiologist far eclipses your measly amount of patients. Ergo, while there are situations in which your knowledge and experience are needed, for the most part, you are far too specialized to be of real use to society overall. If the apocalypse were to come tonight, I'd be in much more demand than you, Dr. Hfuhruhurr! And that's just when we take into consideration only your supposed talent as a neurosurgeon. When your sh*tty attitude is taken into account, you are even further back in the pecking order. You see, when a doctor starts passing judgment like you have, you have begun to think yourself a god. by rakesh sharma (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 at 5:21:29 PM (0+)
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Not unlike Blue Pilgrim...
...I grow tired of you. Obviously, you are without compassion when it comes to your fellow man. If you and the assholes at that hospital can't even be called upon to let someone die with dignity, then I have nothing further to say to you. You go run along now and play with the other people who think they are better than everyone else. Go on, shoo! I am as much of a fan and admirer of Ayn Rand as the next budding objectivist. However, there is reality, and there is the world of ideology as it appears in a book. Obviously, you have yet to learn that difference. The good thing about reality is it punishes the proud and the poor with equal measure. For now, you feel you are on top of the world. Perhaps you are. Fortune can turn on a dime. Ask Fatty Arbuckle. Sometime in your life, reality is going to take you down a peg or two. Perhaps at that time, you might actually take the time to be a compassionate human being. Until then, as far as I am concerned, you and the assholes like you that would let a human die without dignity deserve to be just as disgraced on your deathbed. So good-bye. I hope you have a shitty life so you might gain some insight into what it means to live a life like the rest of mankind. Pappy by Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 860 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jun 17, 2007 at 1:32:00 AM (0+)
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Not Until It Happens to You
It's hard to fully understand what it's like to have a life threatening illness and not be able to get medical treatment unless it has happened to you and yours. It doesn't just happen to non-English speakers from other places. My daughter could not get medicaid for her lserious illness because she was not yet declared disabled and was over 18 and not pregnant, which disqualifies you in California. (We tried and tried) She spent hours in the emergency room of a CATHOLIC hospital actively bleeding and ended up discharged to the street without help and a $2000 bill for services she didn't even receive. Thank God I nursed her at home and she pulled through. Now she is officially disabled and gets social security, but medicaid took so long it wouldn't pay the old outstanding bill and her credit is ruined. Because of that she can't qualify for low cost housing. We were once middle class Americans. Not anymore. Wake up people, this could easily happen to you. by macdon1 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 113 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 at 6:15:57 PM (0+)
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Death by vomiting
You state that the right wingers were responsible for the failure of Hillary's health plan. However, can you verify that her health plan was presented as "non-profit"? It wasn't as I recall. If you can, please let me know. She has enough against her to make her frightening as President without that one. Obviously, we don't need another "for profit" health plan. In the interest of justice, Emily Horswill by emily horswill (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 79 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 at 1:52:03 AM (0+)
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